7 ms·
How Monty Python and the Holy Grail became a comedy legend
- jspash 2y agoJust curious. How does the leading word "How" get missed off from the headline to the submission headline? Its a totally different sentence now. Is there a word limit to HN headlines?
- mdp2021 2y agoThere is a pattern recognition and transformation mechanism in place that rearranges bad title forms, such as "12 ways to serve Spam".
- ginko 2y agoI loathe this automatic editing of titles on HN. "How X became Y" and "X became Y" has a completely different meaning. If there's submissions with stupid titles like "12 ways to serve Spam" then these should just be flagged by the users.
- mdp2021 2y ago> automatic editing of titles You can modify them again if the automated result is unsatisfactory. > these should just be flagged No, we submit articles, not titles. (Which in journalism are often not even the product of the same author.)
- ginko 2y ago>You can modify them again if the automated result is unsatisfactory. The original submitter can for a limited time. Often they don't, leading to butchered titles like this one.
- dang 2y agoAnything is loathsome when you only count the cases it gets wrong! https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20count%20%22gets%20wrong%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- gbuk2013 2y agoAnd there was much rejoicing! :)
- 6stringmerc 2y agoThose poor minstrels.
- DbigCOX 2y ago[flagged]
- block_dagger 2y agoIt's not dead yet.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoShould be required watching for entry to adulthood.
- john_the_writer 2y agoMy 15year old can quote it. Their teacher said something the other day, and she replied from the movie. They both laughed, but the rest of the class (apparently) all looked confused. I was very proud. Same thing happened with a FleetwoodMac song. Different teacher.
- AStonesThrow 1y agoA few years ago, a teacher friend accompanied me to Phoenix Comicon where there was a panel discussion on “Using Pop Culture In The Classroom”. Driving home, I confided to her that I may have been the only Republican in the room. Then a few weeks later, I mentioned the panel to another friend from the same church. He was in his mid-20s, and an educator in independent Catholic and charter [liberal arts] schools. He told me that teachers there were expressly forbidden from introducing pop culture references. I mean, it seems nice for a student to share an in-joke with teacher, but is that an inclusive environment and a safe space? It is never an error to adhere to the curriculum and thus ensure that your class materials engage all the students with cultural and moral sensitivity.
- bambax 2y agoI first saw it in school, at 15 (a looong time ago). Could not believe my eyes. Could not believe one was allowed to even do that. The incredible freedom of it all, starting with the title sequence, and the incredible irreverence, crazyness. I think it's fair to say it changed me as a person. I never took anything too seriously after that.
- readthenotes1 2y agoOne company I worked for, we used to joke that we should get rid of all the software questions and ask what the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow is.
- riffraff 2y agoCoincidentally read a comment yesterday on the lines of "strange women lying in ponds distributing swords does seem like a decent basis for a system of government at this point". Absolute masterpiece.
- switch007 2y agoI mean, if I went around sayin' I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away! -- The text doesn't do the scene justice. Michael Palin is a national treasure!
- mdp2021 2y ago> Michael Palin is a national treasure ...But for his postman. (Possibly obscure reference from Armando Iannucci's Charm Offensive. Pluri-national, international treasures.)
- mdp2021 2y ago(...I tired to find the clip and post the transcript, but it is unavailable. It was along the lines of Michael's postman having been interviewed in 2007, complaining that Palin received too many letters. Mark Watson must have replied that "It was sad, since Michael Palin speaks with high regard about his postman"... And so on.)
- perilunar 2y agoFor those who haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qT-C-0ajI&t=129s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qT-C-0ajI&t=129s
- belter 2y ago"We are an anarcho syndicalist commune..." "Now we see the violence inherent in the system..." :-)
- n1b0m 2y ago
- ggm 2y agoI enjoy python stuff but not all of it aged well. A lot of older comedy aged better. Jacques Tati films for example. Or Chaplin. They could be bizarrely homophobic and also celebrate gay culture in the same show. They were often very misogynist. I still laugh at it. I still watch it. But the adulation faded. No Australian enjoys their take on Australian wine. It's wincingly unpleasant. Barry Humphries, Germaine Greer and Clive James fed cultural stereotypes which died out when earl's court became too expensive for Australian backpackers. The abos armpit thing comes back to me far too often from naive British friends who would never use the N word, or make jokes about Irish being stupid. They don't know what they're saying. Eric Idle complained he had to do Spamelot to get some retirement income. George Harrison made bank on the films. The situationist surreal stuff, Terry Gilliams pasteup animation, very good. Dressing up as ladies.. tiresome. There's a line from pythons dressing up as working class women to little Britain making fun of incontinent old women.
- rightbyte 2y agoI think the cosplay was quite challanging at the time? Like, there was very little kicking downwards. Little Britain lacks taste in comparison.
- ggm 2y agoYes it was hugely transgressive. As was the nudity. John Cleese presenting the fake 6 o clock news wearing nothing but a bow tie, Gilliam playing the piano starkers. I'd say there was a bit of kicking down. The gumbies and the three Yorkshireman a bit (that predates python, they brought it in with them, they'd written for something like "that was the week that was") mainly they kicked middle class values.
- nonrandomstring 2y agoTrue, but do you (HN readers) look on transgression only with nostalgia? What would be usefully transgressive today? Much subversive humour is Socratic in just asking (pointing out) hard questions. In that vein, TBH I find it hard to square a post celebrating famous British humour on a site where any humour, whether good or in poor taste, is mercilessly punished by downvoting and faux outrage. I'm not calling hypocrisy, just pointing to an odd juxtaposition of values. Do y'all delight in things the Python team said precicely because you wouldn't tolerate it or have the personal sense of security to say it today?
- shreyshnaccount 2y agowhile it hasn't aged the best, it is quiet entertaining
- ghaff 2y agoI never totally connected with Holy Grail though I liked/like it a lot. I probably to put Life of Brian at the top of the heap although it’s probably somewhat less known.
- nosianu 2y agoNo no, The Meaning of Life is the best one, how can there be any doubt of that! "Every sperm is sacred..." (https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk) or "Can we have your liver?" (https://youtu.be/Sp-pU8TFsg0 https://youtu.be/Sp-pU8TFsg0) :)
- riffruff24 2y agoyes it has
- Joeboy 2y agoThis isn't an argument, it's just contradiction.
- lancefisher 2y agoNo it isn’t.
- bambax 2y agoYes it is.
- shreyshnaccount 2y agodon't really understand the down votes, but I am very open to hearing why it seems to be a controversial statement. the show has some bigoted scenes and I am not defending that, obviously. I am simply talking about how I like the creative premises of the absurdist comedy
- dvh 2y agoCan someone decipher what one of the prophets was talking about, the "thing with attachment", it always struck me as a perfect portrayal of a prophet that somehow seen future, but because himself being from a distant past cannot really comprehend or explain it.
- mdp2021 2y agoFunny coincidence, I believe a few hours earlier I read a comment from Dang who called some complaints a "Help, help, I'm being repressed". Gives you a proportion of the extent...
- dang 2y agoI have to force myself not to use that line. It's too sarcastic for a good mod comment, but it's also so perfect, it pains me to edit it out. So other few words fit! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lStcwT_RGrQ#t=50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lStcwT_RGrQ#t=50).
- 6stringmerc 2y agoIt’s a hard business, being a shrubber, that we must all acknowledge.
- aa-jv 1y agoHe's NOT the Messiah, he's a VERY NAUGHTY BOY!
- metalman 2y agoCleese on a talk show with Taylor Swift is evidence of how efortless it is for him to totaly take over a situation, poke horrible fun at someone, without giving cause for offence, charm the hell out of woman 25% his age ,while talking about his own wife and her cat he's old now, but still formitable buddy got to work with him
- sema4hacker 2y agoIt forever burned Castle Anthrax into my memory.
- aa-jv 1y agoIts only a model.
- omega3 2y agoIs there anything even remotely comparable in quality to Monty Python right now?
- biophysboy 2y agoStand-up has been hegemonic lately, because it lends itself well to podcasts/streaming/short-form, but Dropout (formerly CollegeHumor) is a new thing that I think does a good job with alternative formats (sketch, improv, game show)
- kjkjadksj 2y agoThe best stuff I’ve seen lately has all been in person unrecorded. The room gets slap happy over anything and so there are no filters unlike stuff packaged for streaming
- JadeNB 2y ago> Is there anything even remotely comparable in quality to Monty Python right now? I suspect that, like most things that we now recognise as classics, much of Monty Python wasn't recognized at the time as a classic. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail#Reception_and_legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grai... suggests that, while reception was generally positive, there wasn't the sense we'd now expect of a great treasure having just been unearthed. All of which is to say that, whatever is comparable right now, we probably think of it as so-so, and will have to await retrospective critical appreciation to find out what we should have been treasuring.
- coldtea 1y ago>much of Monty Python wasn't recognized at the time as a classic Monty Python was a huge success in its day - which is why it spawed multiple seasons, movies, comedy albums, books, and of course multiple careers (for all involved, even the mere non-speaking ...cartoonist), and even live shows. And that's just in the 70s and early 80s. >For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grai... suggests that, while reception was generally positive, there wasn't the sense we'd now expect of a great treasure having just been unearthed. Its funs where younger demographics. Mainstream reviewers of the time were notoriously out of touch. Hardly anybody more square than Ebert (at least he did gave it 3/4).
- mdp2021 2y agoHave you seen them at Graham Norton's? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhaBIU9TcJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhaBIU9TcJ0
- subjectsigma 1y agoI noticed this movie is heavily gendered, I’ve watched it with female relatives / friends / girlfriends / etc. and they never seem to find it funny, whereas male friends all find it hilarious. Could be a coincidence, could not be. It’s interesting to me though because if it isn’t a coincidence, I can’t think of a good reason why. I’ve seen some comedies that were obviously catered to a specific demographic but Holy Grail isn’t that, so why the discrepancy?
- boxed 1y agoI have watched it with plenty of women, and I have not seen any difference.
- subjectsigma 1y agoEh, maybe then it’s not that deep and I just need better friends :)
- myheartisinohio 1y agoLife of Brian is also a gem.
- glimshe 1y agoI have an embarrassing confession to make. I absolutely hate Monty Python and don't find them funny almost at all. The jokes are childish, obscure and lazy from my Gen X point of view. People have told me "you need to like British humor to enjoy it" but I've seen a lot of funny jokes in British movies... And I know many funny people from the UK. So, PLEASE... Could anyone tell me what's funny about Monty Python?
- lordfrito 1y agoNot trying to oversimplify the appeal, but I personally found their juxtaposition between the absurd and highly intelligent social commentary endlessly entertaining because deep down it felt like they were saying something is really really wrong with society and existence in general. They wrapped it up in comedy, because what else can you do in the face of an existential crisis but laugh at it? They always felt like a group of very angry young men trying to disrupt the stuffy old system from within. Very subversive stuff, especially for it's time. It really resonated with me as an angry/angsty (and relatively intelligent) adolescent male. Go watch Brazil and tell me that Gilliam isn't furious with humanity and the state of things in the world.
- nancyminusone 1y agoSilly Walks isn't just funny because it's a grown man flopping his legs around like a kid, but also because there's apparently a department of the government to manage such activity. That's absurd.
- comeondude 1y agoNothing to be embarrassed about, different strokes for different folks. However, Monty Python was far from lazy, they cleverly deconstructed a repressive British culture at the time, they mocked class and authority, uptight education institutions, pointless bureaucracies, religious hypocrisy, and violent glorification of British history. Their humor can be pretty crass by today’s standards, but if you approach their work as an absurdist, subversive satire, they’re one of the best that have ever done it. I’ve always found their underlying message to be “don’t take things too seriously and enjoy life.” As for what’s funny, they’re just absurd. A flying bunny that rips knights head off, an accidental messiah who just points out basic common sense which is interpreted by the masses as direct edict from God, brilliant deconstruction of bullshit bureaucracy in form of ministry of silly walks. Things like that. But if that doesn’t tickle your fancy, that’s okay too.
- alnwlsn 1y agoI was somewhat disappointed to learn that there's a lot less Monty Python on Youtube than there used to be. You can still find the Cheese Shop, Dead Parrot, or Silly Walks, but about 15 years back it seemed like nearly every sketch from Flying Circus was there. Most of which were uploaded by the official Monty Python youtube channel. Now, about 90% of them have been taken down. Which is a shame, as this is how I discovered them. Another loss for kids these days.
- AStonesThrow 1y agoMy mom exposed me and my sister to Python on PBS long ago, and we used to explode in paroxysms of laughter and roll around on the floor when the Dead Parrot sketch was going. I rewatched it a few weeks ago, took note of the symbolism surrounding it, and now I am horrified, shocked, disgusted that I ever took delight in the abuse of women and degrading them. And I cannot watch Abby on NCIS without thinking of what the actress has been through in her real life.
- jmpman 1y agoOn a side note, Life of Brian used to be listed on the Apple iTunes Store as rated “PG” - it’s actually “R”. Great fun when I let my 11 and 13 year old boys watch it. Luckily their mother wasn’t home. Appears Apple eventually rectified that issue, but I tried to report it and man does Apple make it difficult.