10 ms·

I think it could have been a great help to the UK.

by callamdelaney 2y ago

lostlogin 2y ago
Yes, a small majority agreed. But that isn’t what I asked.
- philjohn 2y ago
  This is the problem - brexit meant something different to everyone who voted for it ... and the reality was never going to match up because we have binding agreements like the GFA which meant Northern Ireland was always going to have to be treated differently than mainland UK.
  - gadders 2y ago
    Well, only if you think the IRA/Sinn Fein should set UK foreign policy. We could have implemented an (EU-requested) north/south border in Ireland. Or not implemented one at all.
    - philjohn 2y ago
      The signatories to the GFA include the US as well - if you want to rip up the GFA to install a hard border you have to own the second order effects of that. Or decide that Brexit was never going to work the way those who peddled it said it would.
matt-p 2y ago
If we'd of done what, out of interest? Personally I don't 'agree' with brexit, but it's the reality that we're in. In typical british fashion we're trying to stay friends with the EU, even though they basically hate us, while also trying to do trade with the rest of the world. Predictably we can't really do much of 2 without 1 becoming a problem (and vice versa). However 1 is currently our biggest trading partner (as a bloc, US as a country) so what have we done? Sat in the middle not doing anything radical hoping we can be best friends with everyone.
- peterfirefly 2y ago
  We don't hate the UK. We are just waiting (impatiently) for you to come to your senses.
  - matt-p 2y ago
    So would we be able to get the exact same deal we had? We are under the impression the answer is no, as whenever we try and negotiate away stuff that's in neither of our interests it gets rejected. Take this Eitas Visa for example, this is literally just sowing resentment towards the EU in the UK. It benefits nobody and is totally insane, it's just making people hate the EU. Same with not being able to use the digital passport machines at airports.. why?? We're a pretty secure country, we have digital passports. Brexit happens and now every time I go to Europe, which is a lot I've got a 50/50 chance of waiting 3 hours at the border for someone to stamp my passport while the digital gates have no queue. That means I now have to arrive 3 hours early every time just in case. If I bring a tool for work I need to spend weeks of paperwork on something called a carnet so I end up buying there and throwing out. At the moment we're trying to give security backing for Ukraine and you're asking us to give up our fishing rights for the honour of helping secure Europe. I get it, actions have consequences, but the thing is that only a minority voted for Brexit, most of us didn't. Each year you're disenfranchising a new generation of would be Europeans with this path. To me it's all dreadfully regrettable, the whole things a mess. It's impossible for us to 'come to our senses' while we get treated like this in my view.
    - rassimmoc 2y ago
      >At the moment we're trying to give security backing for Ukraine and you're asking us to give up our fishing rights for the honour of helping secure Europe. You are not trying to secure Europe, you are trying to sell something to Europe. We would rather build capacity to make whatever you want to sell us ourselfs. I agree we should work closely together, more so after US started dancing naked around burning brides. But everyone is looking into how to secure themselfs, without depending on 3rd party, and from EU's perspective UK is on the outside (even if not as crazy as US has become).
notatoad 2y ago
this is not a hypothetical, brexit happened...

I think it could have been a great help to the UK.

lostlogin 2y ago

Yes, a small majority agreed. But that isn’t what I asked.

philjohn 2y ago
This is the problem - brexit meant something different to everyone who voted for it ... and the reality was never going to match up because we have binding agreements like the GFA which meant Northern Ireland was always going to have to be treated differently than mainland UK.
- gadders 2y ago
  Well, only if you think the IRA/Sinn Fein should set UK foreign policy. We could have implemented an (EU-requested) north/south border in Ireland. Or not implemented one at all.
  - philjohn 2y ago
    The signatories to the GFA include the US as well - if you want to rip up the GFA to install a hard border you have to own the second order effects of that. Or decide that Brexit was never going to work the way those who peddled it said it would.

matt-p 2y ago

If we'd of done what, out of interest? Personally I don't 'agree' with brexit, but it's the reality that we're in. In typical british fashion we're trying to stay friends with the EU, even though they basically hate us, while also trying to do trade with the rest of the world. Predictably we can't really do much of 2 without 1 becoming a problem (and vice versa). However 1 is currently our biggest trading partner (as a bloc, US as a country) so what have we done? Sat in the middle not doing anything radical hoping we can be best friends with everyone.

peterfirefly 2y ago
We don't hate the UK. We are just waiting (impatiently) for you to come to your senses.
- matt-p 2y ago
  So would we be able to get the exact same deal we had? We are under the impression the answer is no, as whenever we try and negotiate away stuff that's in neither of our interests it gets rejected. Take this Eitas Visa for example, this is literally just sowing resentment towards the EU in the UK. It benefits nobody and is totally insane, it's just making people hate the EU. Same with not being able to use the digital passport machines at airports.. why?? We're a pretty secure country, we have digital passports. Brexit happens and now every time I go to Europe, which is a lot I've got a 50/50 chance of waiting 3 hours at the border for someone to stamp my passport while the digital gates have no queue. That means I now have to arrive 3 hours early every time just in case. If I bring a tool for work I need to spend weeks of paperwork on something called a carnet so I end up buying there and throwing out. At the moment we're trying to give security backing for Ukraine and you're asking us to give up our fishing rights for the honour of helping secure Europe. I get it, actions have consequences, but the thing is that only a minority voted for Brexit, most of us didn't. Each year you're disenfranchising a new generation of would be Europeans with this path. To me it's all dreadfully regrettable, the whole things a mess. It's impossible for us to 'come to our senses' while we get treated like this in my view.
  - rassimmoc 2y ago
    >At the moment we're trying to give security backing for Ukraine and you're asking us to give up our fishing rights for the honour of helping secure Europe. You are not trying to secure Europe, you are trying to sell something to Europe. We would rather build capacity to make whatever you want to sell us ourselfs. I agree we should work closely together, more so after US started dancing naked around burning brides. But everyone is looking into how to secure themselfs, without depending on 3rd party, and from EU's perspective UK is on the outside (even if not as crazy as US has become).

notatoad 2y ago

this is not a hypothetical, brexit happened...