5 ms·

I dunno, looks pretty bad https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide-to-the-destruction-of-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18

I dunno, looks pretty bad https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide-to-the-destruction-of-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide...

raxxorraxor 2y ago
No, you probably do indeed not know. Israel did not start this war. They also once withdrew from Gaza. These facts are all very counterindicative of Israels ambition for genocide. Fairly contrary to what the defacto government of Gaza espouses.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  They withdrew from Gaza, but sealed off its borders, deliberately kept it just above starvation, and kill a few hundred civilians every few years by bombing, invading, or just shooting unarmed protesters near the border fence. What convinces me that this can be called a genocide, besides the incredibly high death toll and the utter and almost complete destruction Israel has wreaked on Gaza, are the many explicitly genocidal statements by Israeli leaders, generals, soldiers, news broadcasters, cultural figures, etc. The way Israelis talk about Palestinians is so blatantly genocidal that it's impossible to interpret the mass killing they've carried out as anything other than deliberate.
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    Israel wouldn't be the only country that did protects its borders because of obvious security interests. The wall they build massively reduced incidents of attacks and the almost permanent rocket fire. Do you think these incidents did and do not happen?
    - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
      This isn't "protect[ing] its borders." Israel sealed off Gaza, which isn't even Israeli territory. Israel won't have security as long as it continues to oppress the Palestinians. I have no sympathy for their arguments about their own security as long as they continue to steal Palestinian land and kill tens of thousands of Palestinians.
      - raxxorraxor 2y ago
        Isreal didn't steal land in Gaze, they withdrew. Again, if Gaza didn't attack Israel, it would look a lot different today. That makes the genocide accusation even more off base. Perhaps you noticed that you repositioned the argument. Also, the same can be said about Israelis. If Palestine stopped firing rockets at them, there would be less incidents. Although in that case it would probably be true. If you want to have factual indications for the ambitions for war or genocide, look at the school curriculum in both countries.
        DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        Israel is stealing more and more Palestinian land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and has no intention of ever giving up or withdrawing from those territories. Its plan is to either confine the Palestinians into little South-Africa-style Bantustans (sorry, "Emirates," to use the preferred phrase in Israel), or to expel them altogether. Gaza itself has been sealed off and bombed and invaded over and over again. It's a giant ghetto. You don't need to look at the school curricula. Just look at what Israelis at all levels are saying, from the soldiers on the ground up all the way up to the Prime Minister and President. The amount of genocidal rhetoric is shocking, especially coming from a country that makes the Holocaust such a central part of its raison d'être.
        raxxorraxor 2y ago
        [flagged]
        DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        > You cannot commit genocide through rhetoric Maybe you've missed this, but Israel has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians and has laid utter waste to Gaza. But genocide also requires intent, and Israelis have loudly broadcast that intent to the world. > They are taught to hate Jews from the start. No, they aren't. They learn to hate Israelis through bitter experience. If you live under a foreign military occupation, with constant humiliation by foreign soldiers on your territory, with foreign settlers stealing more and more of your land, and with that foreign military killing tens of thousands of your countrymen, nobody has to teach you to hate that foreign country. It's actually amazing that UNRWA has managed to set up such a politically neutral education system under these circumstances. Palestinians don't hate Jews. If you're Jewish, you can go to the West Bank. People will be friendly to you if you're sympathetic to their situation. What they don't like is Israel, the country that controls their lives and oppresses them day in and day out.

I dunno, looks pretty bad https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide-to-the-destruction-of-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide...

raxxorraxor 2y ago

No, you probably do indeed not know. Israel did not start this war. They also once withdrew from Gaza. These facts are all very counterindicative of Israels ambition for genocide. Fairly contrary to what the defacto government of Gaza espouses.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
They withdrew from Gaza, but sealed off its borders, deliberately kept it just above starvation, and kill a few hundred civilians every few years by bombing, invading, or just shooting unarmed protesters near the border fence. What convinces me that this can be called a genocide, besides the incredibly high death toll and the utter and almost complete destruction Israel has wreaked on Gaza, are the many explicitly genocidal statements by Israeli leaders, generals, soldiers, news broadcasters, cultural figures, etc. The way Israelis talk about Palestinians is so blatantly genocidal that it's impossible to interpret the mass killing they've carried out as anything other than deliberate.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  Israel wouldn't be the only country that did protects its borders because of obvious security interests. The wall they build massively reduced incidents of attacks and the almost permanent rocket fire. Do you think these incidents did and do not happen?
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    This isn't "protect[ing] its borders." Israel sealed off Gaza, which isn't even Israeli territory. Israel won't have security as long as it continues to oppress the Palestinians. I have no sympathy for their arguments about their own security as long as they continue to steal Palestinian land and kill tens of thousands of Palestinians.
    - raxxorraxor 2y ago
      Isreal didn't steal land in Gaze, they withdrew. Again, if Gaza didn't attack Israel, it would look a lot different today. That makes the genocide accusation even more off base. Perhaps you noticed that you repositioned the argument. Also, the same can be said about Israelis. If Palestine stopped firing rockets at them, there would be less incidents. Although in that case it would probably be true. If you want to have factual indications for the ambitions for war or genocide, look at the school curriculum in both countries.
      - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        Israel is stealing more and more Palestinian land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and has no intention of ever giving up or withdrawing from those territories. Its plan is to either confine the Palestinians into little South-Africa-style Bantustans (sorry, "Emirates," to use the preferred phrase in Israel), or to expel them altogether. Gaza itself has been sealed off and bombed and invaded over and over again. It's a giant ghetto. You don't need to look at the school curricula. Just look at what Israelis at all levels are saying, from the soldiers on the ground up all the way up to the Prime Minister and President. The amount of genocidal rhetoric is shocking, especially coming from a country that makes the Holocaust such a central part of its raison d'être.
        raxxorraxor 2y ago
        [flagged]
        DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        > You cannot commit genocide through rhetoric Maybe you've missed this, but Israel has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians and has laid utter waste to Gaza. But genocide also requires intent, and Israelis have loudly broadcast that intent to the world. > They are taught to hate Jews from the start. No, they aren't. They learn to hate Israelis through bitter experience. If you live under a foreign military occupation, with constant humiliation by foreign soldiers on your territory, with foreign settlers stealing more and more of your land, and with that foreign military killing tens of thousands of your countrymen, nobody has to teach you to hate that foreign country. It's actually amazing that UNRWA has managed to set up such a politically neutral education system under these circumstances. Palestinians don't hate Jews. If you're Jewish, you can go to the West Bank. People will be friendly to you if you're sympathetic to their situation. What they don't like is Israel, the country that controls their lives and oppresses them day in and day out.