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John, On one hand sure China can sell products to the rest of the world. In the extreme case where trade was cut off completely between the US and China who w

John, On one hand sure China can sell products to the rest of the world. In the extreme case where trade was cut off completely between the US and China who will buy the over $500 billion in goods China previously sold to the United States? Brazil? They have tariffs on electronic products. The EU? I just linked an article where the EU is already asking China to stop shipments that would have been bound for the US or face tariffs on those goods. South East Asia? Japan? Korea? Neither of those countries are going to allow Chinese companies to outcompete their manufacturing sectors. I'm just not sure who exactly has the appetite or money for these goods. On the other hand, why exactly is the US not just able to buy desired goods from other markets? They may be more expensive due to the tariffs in some or many cases, but it's not like the US can't buy iPhones made in India or instead of buying t-shirts made by Chinese subsidiaries in Vietnam you buy them actually made in the United States. Germany has to sell Mercedes Benz. What happens when the EU says "no thanks" to their automobile manufacturers being beat by Chinese ones in the European market? The main argument I've seen made online is basically "prices go up", and I think that can cause a political change, but economically I don't find it to be that compelling. I also find it generally disingenuous that there's a spirit of the US is the sole bad guy here. Donald Trump (who I didn't vote for) is an a-hole, but that doesn't mean other countries weren't engaging in unfair or protectionist trade policies either, nor does it mean they will stop or won't protect their manufacturing bases from Chinese competition.

JohnFen 2y ago
Nobody else is engaging in the punitive tariff rates the US is imposing, so the rest of the world is economically more attractive than the US on the score. I don't see how China will be more hurt by this than the US. Everyone will be hurt, of course, which is one of the reasons why the US starting this trade war is insanity. > that doesn't mean other countries weren't engaging in unfair or protectionist trade policies either True, although Trump massively overstates how much of this is actually happening. However, there are numerous ways to address this that don't involve self-harm. We're just choosing not to do them. Also, the US engages in these practices as much as everyone else. There's more than a whiff of the pot calling the kettle black here.
- ericmay 2y ago
  > Also, the US engages in these practices as much as everyone else. I don't know that this is factually true. I suspect it is. I also want to make it very clear that I'm not defending Donald Trump nor am I suggesting that the way he's going about things is the only or even an optimal way. With those disclaimers aside: > Nobody else is engaging in the punitive tariff rates the US is imposing, so the rest of the world is economically more attractive than the US on the score. I don't see how China will be more hurt by this than the US. When you say nobody else is engaging in punitive tariff rates, well we just got started I think last week right? We're only seeing effects in the stock market today (and of course suppliers and importers are in nightmare mode as well). I've already linked an article discussing the EU telling China to turn shipments around or face tariffs. There's 0 chance that this doesn't continue to cause reactions. I'm also not sure what the rest of the world being "more attractive on that score" means. Sure, prices may rise for American citizens on imported products, but if you postulate that Americans are the ones who "pay the tariff" as so many say then what's exactly the problem for exporters? Of course when we look at reality they will have to reduce their own costs to make their products more competitive to the US market to account for tariffs, or sell fewer products. But in this scenario the United States is still are far more attractive market to sell to than many other countries.
- deleted 2y ago
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JohnFen 2y ago

Nobody else is engaging in the punitive tariff rates the US is imposing, so the rest of the world is economically more attractive than the US on the score. I don't see how China will be more hurt by this than the US. Everyone will be hurt, of course, which is one of the reasons why the US starting this trade war is insanity. > that doesn't mean other countries weren't engaging in unfair or protectionist trade policies either True, although Trump massively overstates how much of this is actually happening. However, there are numerous ways to address this that don't involve self-harm. We're just choosing not to do them. Also, the US engages in these practices as much as everyone else. There's more than a whiff of the pot calling the kettle black here.

ericmay 2y ago
> Also, the US engages in these practices as much as everyone else. I don't know that this is factually true. I suspect it is. I also want to make it very clear that I'm not defending Donald Trump nor am I suggesting that the way he's going about things is the only or even an optimal way. With those disclaimers aside: > Nobody else is engaging in the punitive tariff rates the US is imposing, so the rest of the world is economically more attractive than the US on the score. I don't see how China will be more hurt by this than the US. When you say nobody else is engaging in punitive tariff rates, well we just got started I think last week right? We're only seeing effects in the stock market today (and of course suppliers and importers are in nightmare mode as well). I've already linked an article discussing the EU telling China to turn shipments around or face tariffs. There's 0 chance that this doesn't continue to cause reactions. I'm also not sure what the rest of the world being "more attractive on that score" means. Sure, prices may rise for American citizens on imported products, but if you postulate that Americans are the ones who "pay the tariff" as so many say then what's exactly the problem for exporters? Of course when we look at reality they will have to reduce their own costs to make their products more competitive to the US market to account for tariffs, or sell fewer products. But in this scenario the United States is still are far more attractive market to sell to than many other countries.
deleted 2y ago
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