3 ms·

If it's not illegal then why are you using words like "fraud" and "steal"?

specialp 1y ago
Because it is the technical definition of the words and that is exactly what it is. Something not being illegal does not mean that it isn't fraud or stealing. Misrepresenting your availability and willfully trying to cover that is is fraud. Taking someone's money while fraudulently not working for it is stealing. I know overemployment people will rationalize it some other way but it doesn't change that.
- sneak 1y ago
  If those so "overemployed" (that is to say, working multiple jobs, a normal and common thing to do in society) were not working for their employer, they would be dismissed quickly. Nobody's stealing anything in these situations.
  - specialp 1y ago
    I think you are conflating "working multiple jobs" with working multiple jobs during the same time period and lying to the other jobs about what you are doing when you cannot be reached. There is a big difference. If I work 9-5 on one job, and 5-1am on the other job that is not taking time from one to spend on the other. If I work 2+ jobs during that 9-5 period and not tell anyone and make excuses for not getting things done long enough until one of them fires me that is being dishonest.
wpietri 1y ago
If you look at the history of fraud, people are always coming up with new ways to steal from people that are at the margins of legality. Consider the category "wire fraud", for example. It's not like some lawmakers looked at the nascent telephone and the telegraph and said, "Well boys, we'd better make sure these aren't used for crime." No, innovative scammers found ways to use the new technology for new crime for a few decades before the laws were updated. See Joesph "The Yellow Kid" Weil's autobiography for some examples. Just because the fraud or theft isn't at the moment illegal doesn't meant it isn't fraud or theft.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  > Just because the fraud or theft isn't at the moment illegal doesn't meant it isn't fraud or theft. It's a breach of contract. It's not fraud or theft.
  - wpietri 1y ago
    No. Fraud and theft are concepts that are broader than whatever legal jurisdiction you happen to be in at the time. Imagine that somebody gets one of those libertarian paradises up and going. Or imagine a failed state or a post-apocalyptic scenario, where there is no longer any law. It's still possible to run a fraud, it's just that the fraud would be, de jure or de facto, legal.

Because it is the technical definition of the words and that is exactly what it is. Something not being illegal does not mean that it isn't fraud or stealing. Misrepresenting your availability and willfully trying to cover that is is fraud. Taking someone's money while fraudulently not working for it is stealing. I know overemployment people will rationalize it some other way but it doesn't change that.

sneak 1y ago
If those so "overemployed" (that is to say, working multiple jobs, a normal and common thing to do in society) were not working for their employer, they would be dismissed quickly. Nobody's stealing anything in these situations.
- specialp 1y ago
  I think you are conflating "working multiple jobs" with working multiple jobs during the same time period and lying to the other jobs about what you are doing when you cannot be reached. There is a big difference. If I work 9-5 on one job, and 5-1am on the other job that is not taking time from one to spend on the other. If I work 2+ jobs during that 9-5 period and not tell anyone and make excuses for not getting things done long enough until one of them fires me that is being dishonest.

wpietri 1y ago

If you look at the history of fraud, people are always coming up with new ways to steal from people that are at the margins of legality. Consider the category "wire fraud", for example. It's not like some lawmakers looked at the nascent telephone and the telegraph and said, "Well boys, we'd better make sure these aren't used for crime." No, innovative scammers found ways to use the new technology for new crime for a few decades before the laws were updated. See Joesph "The Yellow Kid" Weil's autobiography for some examples. Just because the fraud or theft isn't at the moment illegal doesn't meant it isn't fraud or theft.

FireBeyond 1y ago
> Just because the fraud or theft isn't at the moment illegal doesn't meant it isn't fraud or theft. It's a breach of contract. It's not fraud or theft.
- wpietri 1y ago
  No. Fraud and theft are concepts that are broader than whatever legal jurisdiction you happen to be in at the time. Imagine that somebody gets one of those libertarian paradises up and going. Or imagine a failed state or a post-apocalyptic scenario, where there is no longer any law. It's still possible to run a fraud, it's just that the fraud would be, de jure or de facto, legal.