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This is not an ideological issue, though American politicians will try to spin it that way. It’s that Americans have realized that they have given up core indus

This is not an ideological issue, though American politicians will try to spin it that way. It’s that Americans have realized that they have given up core industrial capabilities in a way that threatens American national security. It’s not China’s fault, but it still requires America to slam on the breaks.

4gotunameagain 2y ago
Industrial capabilities could be on shored with various other incentives without risking a global recession with far greater economical & not costs. This is political incompetence fueled by social media polarization & former political incompetence.
- rayiner 2y ago
  People have been talking that talk my entire lifetime. Nobody has done shit, because nobody wants to hurt their next quarterly profits. We just had a pandemic that was likely caused by China for which we had to buy PPE from China because we can’t make it. The best time for rebuilding our industrial capabilities in an orderly way was the 1990s. The second best time is now.
  - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
    I do not disagree with disentangling the hyper globalised world. We have evidence of how quickly things can go south (bronze age collapse, recent supply chain madness etc). The entire theory is also based on inequality. We build nothing and we ship all the low paid / environmentally disastrous industries abroad. What I disagree with is the methodology, which is simply idiotic.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      People who share this viewpoint have talked about this for decades and the entire time public policy went in the opposite direction. We’ll never get another chance before it’s too late.
      - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
        Would you defibrillate a functioning heart because of a perceived future fibrillation risk ? I do not buy that the only answer to the recent incompetence of the US (and western in general) political system is to shock it with even more incompetence.
lukev 2y ago
Some Americans may wish the US had better relative industrial capabilities, but that isn't what this is about. This is a direct effect of electing a president who deeply, firmly believes that having a trade deficit means we're getting "ripped off", and who has succeeded in dismantling most of the checks and balances around this sort of thing. There's no 4d chess here. Trump has been both serious and literal about tariffs his entire career.
- crazygringo 2y ago
  Exactly. Core industrial capabilities is what things like Biden's CHIPS act were about. Those are targeted tariffs combined with domestic incentives. What Trump doing is not that. It's tariffs on everything, without any distinction on whether something is important for our national security or not.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    Those half measures are never going to work, just like navel gazing about “the root causes of illegal immigration” don’t work. You need big hammers to fix big problems.
    - lukev 2y ago
      Neither of those are "big problems." The US was going gangbusters, from an economic perspective.
      - pton_xd 2y ago
        The stock market was going gangbusters. Inflation and job market have been not so great the past few years.
        jghn 2y ago
        And what makes you feel that inflation & job market are about to head in a better direction?
beardyw 2y ago
> threatens American national security Which is itself ideological, being based on a theory of conflict. The giving up of those capabilities was a result of times of peace.
- pornel 2y ago
  From European perspective, Russia's latest invasion was a wake-up call that the peace isn't permanent, and diplomacy and economic power may not be sufficient to keep it. Effectiveness of drones and advanced missiles in the war was also a wake-up call that semiconductors and batteries have a strategic military importance, and the rest of the world is quite dependent on China and Taiwan for these. I assume that all the talk about trade deficits and unfair competition from Chinese EVs is bullshit, and the US and the EU are having an "oh shit" moment realising they're unprepared for the world where wars are fought with drones and robots.
  - amit9gupta 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - ViewTrick1002 2y ago
      So we should simply have ceded the Baltic states to Russia? Is that what you are suggesting?
      - amit9gupta 2y ago
        No, I am not suggesting this. And to my knowledge neither did Russia at any point suggest this. If Russia did, kindly share. The probability that Russia will invade Europe is propaganda propagated by western media. Request you to watch the 2 videos I have linked above.
        ViewTrick1002 2y ago
        But that is what you are insinuating about Ukraine. We should not have let the Ukrainian people self determine their path and instead given them the cold shoulder and left them to Russia.
tim333 2y ago
>It’s not China’s fault There is an element in that the US protects Taiwan. When China was content to make stuff and not invade places things were fine but now it's building up it's military and saying it will take back Taiwan things are more awkward. It's bad for the US in a war situation with China if all their stuff is imported from China.
- properpopper 2y ago
  > When China was content to make stuff and not invade places Can you tell me more about Chinese invasions? > saying it will take back Taiwan Should the world cancel the USA because it is saying something about annexing Canada\Greenland?
  - tim333 2y ago
    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/china/china-landing-barges-cable-cutter-taiwan-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/china/china-landing-barge...
  - 7jjjjjjj 2y ago
    > Should the world cancel the USA because it is saying something about annexing Canada\Greenland? Of course, how is that even a question?
    - yatopifo 2y ago
      I think they wanted to hear that it’s ok to invade other countries. Despite China being very pragmatic in all matters, China’s view on Taiwan is highly irrational. They want to have it because… well, just because. At the same time they manage to mostly ignore the territories that have been stolen by the Russian Empire. From the practical standpoint they actually have a better chance to regain the Russian territories gradually (through negotiations). I mean, Taiwan can be invaded, but it will be a scorched earth type of invasion making it entirely pointless.
      - bitmasher9 2y ago
grafmax 2y ago
“Threatens American national security” is just the administration’s double speak to justify cynical foreign policy decisions. Since 1945 America has struggled with the prospect of its decline. The US would come to exchange a trade deficit for being the world’s reserve currency. However the reserve currency boat has growing leaks. Trump’s administration has circled the wagons, withdrawn support from Ukraine, antagonized allies, raised tariffs. Essentially American international hegemony is collapsing and we are seeing the latest desperate moves made to retain power.
uses 2y ago
If this was about national security, we wouldn't be ruining relationships with allies while strengthening adversaries. If this was about industrial capacity, we wouldn't be attacking education, chilling investment, attacking energy innovation, attacking science and research, and creating a historically unstable economic environment, all without a whisper of any logical industrial policy. Stop trying to rationalize the destructive foolishness of this leadership.

4gotunameagain 2y ago

Industrial capabilities could be on shored with various other incentives without risking a global recession with far greater economical & not costs. This is political incompetence fueled by social media polarization & former political incompetence.

rayiner 2y ago
People have been talking that talk my entire lifetime. Nobody has done shit, because nobody wants to hurt their next quarterly profits. We just had a pandemic that was likely caused by China for which we had to buy PPE from China because we can’t make it. The best time for rebuilding our industrial capabilities in an orderly way was the 1990s. The second best time is now.
- 4gotunameagain 2y ago
  I do not disagree with disentangling the hyper globalised world. We have evidence of how quickly things can go south (bronze age collapse, recent supply chain madness etc). The entire theory is also based on inequality. We build nothing and we ship all the low paid / environmentally disastrous industries abroad. What I disagree with is the methodology, which is simply idiotic.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    People who share this viewpoint have talked about this for decades and the entire time public policy went in the opposite direction. We’ll never get another chance before it’s too late.
    - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
      Would you defibrillate a functioning heart because of a perceived future fibrillation risk ? I do not buy that the only answer to the recent incompetence of the US (and western in general) political system is to shock it with even more incompetence.

lukev 2y ago

Some Americans may wish the US had better relative industrial capabilities, but that isn't what this is about. This is a direct effect of electing a president who deeply, firmly believes that having a trade deficit means we're getting "ripped off", and who has succeeded in dismantling most of the checks and balances around this sort of thing. There's no 4d chess here. Trump has been both serious and literal about tariffs his entire career.

crazygringo 2y ago
Exactly. Core industrial capabilities is what things like Biden's CHIPS act were about. Those are targeted tariffs combined with domestic incentives. What Trump doing is not that. It's tariffs on everything, without any distinction on whether something is important for our national security or not.
- rayiner 2y ago
  Those half measures are never going to work, just like navel gazing about “the root causes of illegal immigration” don’t work. You need big hammers to fix big problems.
  - lukev 2y ago
    Neither of those are "big problems." The US was going gangbusters, from an economic perspective.
    - pton_xd 2y ago
      The stock market was going gangbusters. Inflation and job market have been not so great the past few years.
      - jghn 2y ago
        And what makes you feel that inflation & job market are about to head in a better direction?

beardyw 2y ago

> threatens American national security Which is itself ideological, being based on a theory of conflict. The giving up of those capabilities was a result of times of peace.

pornel 2y ago
From European perspective, Russia's latest invasion was a wake-up call that the peace isn't permanent, and diplomacy and economic power may not be sufficient to keep it. Effectiveness of drones and advanced missiles in the war was also a wake-up call that semiconductors and batteries have a strategic military importance, and the rest of the world is quite dependent on China and Taiwan for these. I assume that all the talk about trade deficits and unfair competition from Chinese EVs is bullshit, and the US and the EU are having an "oh shit" moment realising they're unprepared for the world where wars are fought with drones and robots.
- amit9gupta 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ViewTrick1002 2y ago
    So we should simply have ceded the Baltic states to Russia? Is that what you are suggesting?
    - amit9gupta 2y ago
      No, I am not suggesting this. And to my knowledge neither did Russia at any point suggest this. If Russia did, kindly share. The probability that Russia will invade Europe is propaganda propagated by western media. Request you to watch the 2 videos I have linked above.
      - ViewTrick1002 2y ago
        But that is what you are insinuating about Ukraine. We should not have let the Ukrainian people self determine their path and instead given them the cold shoulder and left them to Russia.

tim333 2y ago

>It’s not China’s fault There is an element in that the US protects Taiwan. When China was content to make stuff and not invade places things were fine but now it's building up it's military and saying it will take back Taiwan things are more awkward. It's bad for the US in a war situation with China if all their stuff is imported from China.

properpopper 2y ago
> When China was content to make stuff and not invade places Can you tell me more about Chinese invasions? > saying it will take back Taiwan Should the world cancel the USA because it is saying something about annexing Canada\Greenland?
- tim333 2y ago
  https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/china/china-landing-barges-cable-cutter-taiwan-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/china/china-landing-barge...
- 7jjjjjjj 2y ago
  > Should the world cancel the USA because it is saying something about annexing Canada\Greenland? Of course, how is that even a question?
  - yatopifo 2y ago
    I think they wanted to hear that it’s ok to invade other countries. Despite China being very pragmatic in all matters, China’s view on Taiwan is highly irrational. They want to have it because… well, just because. At the same time they manage to mostly ignore the territories that have been stolen by the Russian Empire. From the practical standpoint they actually have a better chance to regain the Russian territories gradually (through negotiations). I mean, Taiwan can be invaded, but it will be a scorched earth type of invasion making it entirely pointless.
    - bitmasher9 2y ago

grafmax 2y ago

“Threatens American national security” is just the administration’s double speak to justify cynical foreign policy decisions. Since 1945 America has struggled with the prospect of its decline. The US would come to exchange a trade deficit for being the world’s reserve currency. However the reserve currency boat has growing leaks. Trump’s administration has circled the wagons, withdrawn support from Ukraine, antagonized allies, raised tariffs. Essentially American international hegemony is collapsing and we are seeing the latest desperate moves made to retain power.

uses 2y ago

If this was about national security, we wouldn't be ruining relationships with allies while strengthening adversaries. If this was about industrial capacity, we wouldn't be attacking education, chilling investment, attacking energy innovation, attacking science and research, and creating a historically unstable economic environment, all without a whisper of any logical industrial policy. Stop trying to rationalize the destructive foolishness of this leadership.