4 ms·

It seems a lot of people, though it sounds idiotic, believe "the way we do it" is obviously the right way and any other is the wrong way. Most have no knowledge

It seems a lot of people, though it sounds idiotic, believe "the way we do it" is obviously the right way and any other is the wrong way. Most have no knowledge of history or appreciation of cultural differences. Every country has the right to run itself as it wishes

rayiner 2y ago
I agree. The Chinese seem happy with their government. And it’s done amazing things for the Chinese people. But the point isn’t to hurt China, it’s to reduce US dependence on China. Americans should proceed with the assumption that the Chinese are a co-equal great power. As we are seeing in areas like AI and electric cars, China isn’t cheap foreign labor. They’re at the leading edge or close in our heels in many technologies. Given that, it’s imperative to reduce American dependence on China. In a world where the average Chinese is as prosperous as the average American—which may happen in our lifetimes—isn’t a good idea for China to have 200x of America’s shipbuilding capacity without America trying to rebuild its own? It’s precisely because China inevitably will become America’s equal economically and technologically that America needs to ensure its own independence and sovereignty.
- hollerith 2y ago
  >The Chinese seem happy with their government. Given how much effort Beijing exerts in suppressing dissent and managing the public conversation about China, how would you or I find out if most Chinese were unhappy with their government?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - tenwz1 2y ago
    In fact, there are many college students and employees in China who use VPN to view foreign networks, just like what I am doing now. I can tell you responsibly that we understand the government's suppression of dissent, although many of us are dissatisfied with this, but there is a consensus that we need a harmonious, stable and positive society. Chinese people are not fools, we will also complain to the government, we have many channels, and in fact we have seen that the government is changing. In recent years, the efficiency of the province where I live has been very high, and we are quite satisfied. Many times foreigners will misunderstand the Chinese government as a high-pressure dictatorship, but if you really live in China, you will find that things are not like that.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - tenwz1 2y ago
        You are such a funny guy, I don't know how to prove it for a moment. I think I can prove it through my own knowledge. I don't need any so-called reward to explain the facts. I am a backend programmer, currently working on a large model project, using GraphRAG and DeepSeek to build a recommendation engine for Internet links. I am also interested in functional programming, such as lisp haskell minikanren. The salary of programmers in China is relatively high.
        hollerith 2y ago
        OK. I appreciate the reply. I meant no disrespect by my question.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - csomar 2y ago
        You can never know. You need to visit China and judge for yourself and also take into consideration the cultural differences (some cultures prioritize outdoor smoking over having political liberties).
      - dang 2y ago
        It's explicitly against the site guidelines to post like this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules, we'd appreciate it. Note this one: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." It's particularly bad when internet users invoke these tropes to hound commenters with minority backgrounds out of a discussion. This has happened more than once on HN in the past, which is particularly shameful and totally against the desired spirit of the site. I gather from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43632625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43632625 that it wasn't your intent, but this is what gets communicated by comments like the parent, whether intended or not. These effects happen all too easily, so we need to guard against them, which is why we have that guideline. (I'm not taking sides for or against any country or position on a topic. This is about HN being a welcoming place for people of all backgrounds.)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - mdhb 2y ago
    This account you’re replying to is unironically pro authoritarian just so you know. Not saying that as trying to start a flame war but their comment history is clearly and openly in line with incredibly partisan and pro authoritarian views and so if you’re looking to understand what they are saying I’m pointing out that it’s not a particularly deep and nuanced view they are trying to make
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  > But the point isn’t to hurt China, it’s to reduce US dependence on China. If the point is to reduce dependence on China, why is Trump starting a trade war with everyone? Also, as many people have pointed out, there's little point in applying tariffs without also providing some kind of boost to the relevant industries - this is just hooliganism by Trump.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > the point isn’t to hurt China, it’s to reduce US dependence on China This was the Thiel pitch. We’re instead driving our allies and trade partners into China’s arms. > Americans should proceed with the assumption that the Chinese are a co-equal great power America basically has been. Coëqual great powers compete. (And China is a regional power on the verge of becoming a great power. It doesn’t yet have demonstrated force-projection capabilities, though it’s building them.)
- arrrg 2y ago
  This is some weird American version of Juche, not reducing dependency on China. Can you explain the dependency reduction mechanism to me? Just as an analogy: If you were to detonate all nuclear weapons in the US inside the US you would also reduce dependency on China. Doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. The path matters.

rayiner 2y ago

I agree. The Chinese seem happy with their government. And it’s done amazing things for the Chinese people. But the point isn’t to hurt China, it’s to reduce US dependence on China. Americans should proceed with the assumption that the Chinese are a co-equal great power. As we are seeing in areas like AI and electric cars, China isn’t cheap foreign labor. They’re at the leading edge or close in our heels in many technologies. Given that, it’s imperative to reduce American dependence on China. In a world where the average Chinese is as prosperous as the average American—which may happen in our lifetimes—isn’t a good idea for China to have 200x of America’s shipbuilding capacity without America trying to rebuild its own? It’s precisely because China inevitably will become America’s equal economically and technologically that America needs to ensure its own independence and sovereignty.

hollerith 2y ago
>The Chinese seem happy with their government. Given how much effort Beijing exerts in suppressing dissent and managing the public conversation about China, how would you or I find out if most Chinese were unhappy with their government?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- tenwz1 2y ago
  In fact, there are many college students and employees in China who use VPN to view foreign networks, just like what I am doing now. I can tell you responsibly that we understand the government's suppression of dissent, although many of us are dissatisfied with this, but there is a consensus that we need a harmonious, stable and positive society. Chinese people are not fools, we will also complain to the government, we have many channels, and in fact we have seen that the government is changing. In recent years, the efficiency of the province where I live has been very high, and we are quite satisfied. Many times foreigners will misunderstand the Chinese government as a high-pressure dictatorship, but if you really live in China, you will find that things are not like that.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - tenwz1 2y ago
      You are such a funny guy, I don't know how to prove it for a moment. I think I can prove it through my own knowledge. I don't need any so-called reward to explain the facts. I am a backend programmer, currently working on a large model project, using GraphRAG and DeepSeek to build a recommendation engine for Internet links. I am also interested in functional programming, such as lisp haskell minikanren. The salary of programmers in China is relatively high.
      - hollerith 2y ago
        OK. I appreciate the reply. I meant no disrespect by my question.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - csomar 2y ago
      You can never know. You need to visit China and judge for yourself and also take into consideration the cultural differences (some cultures prioritize outdoor smoking over having political liberties).
    - dang 2y ago
      It's explicitly against the site guidelines to post like this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules, we'd appreciate it. Note this one: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." It's particularly bad when internet users invoke these tropes to hound commenters with minority backgrounds out of a discussion. This has happened more than once on HN in the past, which is particularly shameful and totally against the desired spirit of the site. I gather from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43632625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43632625 that it wasn't your intent, but this is what gets communicated by comments like the parent, whether intended or not. These effects happen all too easily, so we need to guard against them, which is why we have that guideline. (I'm not taking sides for or against any country or position on a topic. This is about HN being a welcoming place for people of all backgrounds.)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mdhb 2y ago
  This account you’re replying to is unironically pro authoritarian just so you know. Not saying that as trying to start a flame war but their comment history is clearly and openly in line with incredibly partisan and pro authoritarian views and so if you’re looking to understand what they are saying I’m pointing out that it’s not a particularly deep and nuanced view they are trying to make
ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
> But the point isn’t to hurt China, it’s to reduce US dependence on China. If the point is to reduce dependence on China, why is Trump starting a trade war with everyone? Also, as many people have pointed out, there's little point in applying tariffs without also providing some kind of boost to the relevant industries - this is just hooliganism by Trump.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> the point isn’t to hurt China, it’s to reduce US dependence on China This was the Thiel pitch. We’re instead driving our allies and trade partners into China’s arms. > Americans should proceed with the assumption that the Chinese are a co-equal great power America basically has been. Coëqual great powers compete. (And China is a regional power on the verge of becoming a great power. It doesn’t yet have demonstrated force-projection capabilities, though it’s building them.)
arrrg 2y ago
This is some weird American version of Juche, not reducing dependency on China. Can you explain the dependency reduction mechanism to me? Just as an analogy: If you were to detonate all nuclear weapons in the US inside the US you would also reduce dependency on China. Doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. The path matters.