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That is a pretty hyperbolic paragraph only to imply that we as a nation would loose out on innovation by doing so; nowhere do we want to isolate as a country. L

That is a pretty hyperbolic paragraph only to imply that we as a nation would loose out on innovation by doing so; nowhere do we want to isolate as a country. Look at all the jobless Americans in once thriving industrial cities. Generations left without pensions or skills all because we outsource our workers to other countries. That’s one of the many problems that need to be solved and by manufacturing here in the USA it may help resolve or alleviate that problem.

killingtime74 2y ago
It may or may not but the cost is definitely huge and it's already arrived. Would you build a new factory, spend a huge amount of effort marketing, hire workers, incur large debts, if you knew that in three and a half years the presidency may change and it would not be competitive again.
- slicktux 2y ago
  That’s a self fulfilling prophecy…say that is the case. The one thing that won’t change is the jobless and skill less Americans; I understand that the road to hell is paved with good intentions but at this point we can’t help but not ignore the homeless, jobless and skill less problem. Though we can solve it by just creating a UBI, right (sarcasm)?
no_wizard 2y ago
>nowhere do we want to isolate as a country. Look at all the jobless Americans in once thriving industrial cities. Generations left without pensions or skills all because we outsource our workers to other countries. And we didn't pay for re-skilling, re-training, re-education. We didn't give them welfare benefits to hold over while they learned these new things. We did near nothing, and expected these areas simply to pick themselves back up organically. Of course that failed. When you do little to nothing, you get little to nothing in return. Tariffs and manufacturing aren't going to solve this fundamental problem, which is as industry demands shift they externalize the cost whenever possible, which leaves workers, cities and states with a poor deal. If you instead plan around the fact you can't micro manage the economy, but you can setup a meaningful floor that catches people when industry shifts and allows them to invest in themselves - without fear of losing their livelihood - to take advantage of the next opportunities or better yet, create new ones - you wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Tariffs won't help. Bringing manufacturing - in whatever capacity does get brought back, it remains to be seen if this will even happen - won't help alleviate this in any meaningful way. On top of all this, the tariffs are here, and there is little plan beyond simply implementing them and...waiting for industry to magically start manufacturing in the US again? What is the actual plan here? I frankly can't understand the undeserved optimism. If we wanted to make things better for formerly industrial cities, we should have invested in them and their citizenry decades ago. We failed to do this meaningfully. Thats the real problem, and they aren't fixing that problem at all
- squigz 2y ago
  Even if one were to be very generous and assume that this plan will lead to all jobs that were outsourced coming back, that's really only half the problem - technological progress is always going to displace some jobs. Without everything you mentioned, those whose jobs simply do not exist anymore are out of luck... and also now everything is more expensive because of tariffs
- vharuck 2y ago
  Guaranteeing that families won't go bankrupt due to market forces beyond their control would make so many things so much easier. For example, in my state of Pennsylvania, fracking is a political issue. It's a fossil fuel industry, so ideally we'd be weaning off it. But we actually encourage it by having no severance tax on any extracted energy sources. The state is leaving money on the table, and voters seem to like it that way. But, in truth, they don't care about taxes for fracking companies. They care about not ruining towns economically dependant on fracking. They're terrified of those companies leaving, because a chunk of the town's workforce would fall into poverty and take the town with it. Very few people care about where their electricity and heat come from, as long as they can afford it. There's no good reason to oppose moving to renewables except household economics, which is a very good reason for individual voters. If we made sure they weren't going to freeze and starve if the one big employer left town, that employer wouldn't have such an outsized influence on state politics. In a healthy free market, companies go bust. It just happens: better competitors show up, services or goods aren't needed, plans don't pan out. But we've created a system that keeps companies afloat ala Weekend at Bernie's, instead of what people actually want: keep families afloat.
- WillPostForFood 2y ago
  And we didn't pay for re-skilling, re-training, re-education. This was the old "learn to code" moment. You are going to take a 50 year old auto worker with a high school degree and train them to do what? We have tried it, we have invested in it, is just doesn't work well. Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA) Workforce Investment Act (WIA) Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (WIOA) American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) You are better off using trade policy to at least slow down offshoring to give people a chance to move, retrain, retire if they are close.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Aloisius 2y ago
We manufacture more today than at any time in history. We just do it with a whole lot fewer people. Have jobs been lost to outsourcing? Sure. But far more jobs have been lost to automation and the elimination of obsolete industries. While companies might have avoided investing in automation through the use of cheap labor in other countries, there is little doubt that will change if they re-shore.
- slicktux 2y ago
  So tariffs shouldn’t be a problem since we “manufacture more than we did ever before”! we’ll be able to buy USA made and avoid high cost of imports; great!
- amluto 2y ago
  Counterpoint: as far as I know, 30 years ago, a small US company could invent a consumer good and credibly manufacture it here in small to moderate quantities. Today, not so much. If you want an economical contract manufacturer to help you manufacture your product using modern tooling and access to the engineers who know how to set up those tools, as far as I know, you mostly need to look outside the US.
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    No way. You need to go back to the 1960s, and that’s a stretch. The age of the mega corp killed all of that stuff. NYC had a few thousand factories, all crushed by bigger, subsidized by tax policy competitors in the US south and then offshored.
  - aj7 2y ago
    Yes, absolutely. Our skill is in design, management, and marketing, and distribution. Making stuff is today’s farming.
- aj7 2y ago
  Correct.

killingtime74 2y ago

It may or may not but the cost is definitely huge and it's already arrived. Would you build a new factory, spend a huge amount of effort marketing, hire workers, incur large debts, if you knew that in three and a half years the presidency may change and it would not be competitive again.

slicktux 2y ago
That’s a self fulfilling prophecy…say that is the case. The one thing that won’t change is the jobless and skill less Americans; I understand that the road to hell is paved with good intentions but at this point we can’t help but not ignore the homeless, jobless and skill less problem. Though we can solve it by just creating a UBI, right (sarcasm)?

no_wizard 2y ago

>nowhere do we want to isolate as a country. Look at all the jobless Americans in once thriving industrial cities. Generations left without pensions or skills all because we outsource our workers to other countries. And we didn't pay for re-skilling, re-training, re-education. We didn't give them welfare benefits to hold over while they learned these new things. We did near nothing, and expected these areas simply to pick themselves back up organically. Of course that failed. When you do little to nothing, you get little to nothing in return. Tariffs and manufacturing aren't going to solve this fundamental problem, which is as industry demands shift they externalize the cost whenever possible, which leaves workers, cities and states with a poor deal. If you instead plan around the fact you can't micro manage the economy, but you can setup a meaningful floor that catches people when industry shifts and allows them to invest in themselves - without fear of losing their livelihood - to take advantage of the next opportunities or better yet, create new ones - you wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Tariffs won't help. Bringing manufacturing - in whatever capacity does get brought back, it remains to be seen if this will even happen - won't help alleviate this in any meaningful way. On top of all this, the tariffs are here, and there is little plan beyond simply implementing them and...waiting for industry to magically start manufacturing in the US again? What is the actual plan here? I frankly can't understand the undeserved optimism. If we wanted to make things better for formerly industrial cities, we should have invested in them and their citizenry decades ago. We failed to do this meaningfully. Thats the real problem, and they aren't fixing that problem at all

squigz 2y ago
Even if one were to be very generous and assume that this plan will lead to all jobs that were outsourced coming back, that's really only half the problem - technological progress is always going to displace some jobs. Without everything you mentioned, those whose jobs simply do not exist anymore are out of luck... and also now everything is more expensive because of tariffs
vharuck 2y ago
Guaranteeing that families won't go bankrupt due to market forces beyond their control would make so many things so much easier. For example, in my state of Pennsylvania, fracking is a political issue. It's a fossil fuel industry, so ideally we'd be weaning off it. But we actually encourage it by having no severance tax on any extracted energy sources. The state is leaving money on the table, and voters seem to like it that way. But, in truth, they don't care about taxes for fracking companies. They care about not ruining towns economically dependant on fracking. They're terrified of those companies leaving, because a chunk of the town's workforce would fall into poverty and take the town with it. Very few people care about where their electricity and heat come from, as long as they can afford it. There's no good reason to oppose moving to renewables except household economics, which is a very good reason for individual voters. If we made sure they weren't going to freeze and starve if the one big employer left town, that employer wouldn't have such an outsized influence on state politics. In a healthy free market, companies go bust. It just happens: better competitors show up, services or goods aren't needed, plans don't pan out. But we've created a system that keeps companies afloat ala Weekend at Bernie's, instead of what people actually want: keep families afloat.
WillPostForFood 2y ago
And we didn't pay for re-skilling, re-training, re-education. This was the old "learn to code" moment. You are going to take a 50 year old auto worker with a high school degree and train them to do what? We have tried it, we have invested in it, is just doesn't work well. Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA) Workforce Investment Act (WIA) Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (WIOA) American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) You are better off using trade policy to at least slow down offshoring to give people a chance to move, retrain, retire if they are close.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Aloisius 2y ago

We manufacture more today than at any time in history. We just do it with a whole lot fewer people. Have jobs been lost to outsourcing? Sure. But far more jobs have been lost to automation and the elimination of obsolete industries. While companies might have avoided investing in automation through the use of cheap labor in other countries, there is little doubt that will change if they re-shore.

slicktux 2y ago
So tariffs shouldn’t be a problem since we “manufacture more than we did ever before”! we’ll be able to buy USA made and avoid high cost of imports; great!
amluto 2y ago
Counterpoint: as far as I know, 30 years ago, a small US company could invent a consumer good and credibly manufacture it here in small to moderate quantities. Today, not so much. If you want an economical contract manufacturer to help you manufacture your product using modern tooling and access to the engineers who know how to set up those tools, as far as I know, you mostly need to look outside the US.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  No way. You need to go back to the 1960s, and that’s a stretch. The age of the mega corp killed all of that stuff. NYC had a few thousand factories, all crushed by bigger, subsidized by tax policy competitors in the US south and then offshored.
- aj7 2y ago
  Yes, absolutely. Our skill is in design, management, and marketing, and distribution. Making stuff is today’s farming.
aj7 2y ago
Correct.