3 ms·

"brilliantness"? Are you kidding? Have you worked with vimscript? Oh well, at the risk of feeding a troll... Textmate introduced a huge number of features th

"brilliantness"? Are you kidding? Have you worked with vimscript? Oh well, at the risk of feeding a troll... Textmate introduced a huge number of features that now show up in other editors. Snippets, command-t, a tightly integrated community-driven extension system. Textmate was a lightweight editor for lightweight dynamically typed languages. It was the perfect contrast to Eclipse and Java, and was instrumental in changing the status quo for web development (for the better, imho).

batista 14y ago
>"brilliantness"? Are you kidding? Have you worked with vimscript? Oh well, at the risk of feeding a troll... No, I haven't worked with vimscript. What does it have to do with anything? Vim/vi is a brilliant piece of editor software, with a solid concept (an editing language, the dual modes etc). And it is in continuous use for 30+ years now. Does anybody disagree with that? Now,vimscript being crap, or even it being totally absent, would not change those facts. In fact, most of the decades of vi/m using by hundreds of thousands of programmers have been without vimscript existing at all. Btw, please don't use the word "troll" out of context. I made an argument. Reply or ignore it, but don't use conversation killing words like "troll".
- jdonaldson 14y ago
  vimscript/viml, which is the basis of extending vim, regularly shows up as one of the worst languages to work with. http://geeksta.net/geeklog/exploring-expressions-emotions-github-commit-messages/ http://geeksta.net/geeklog/exploring-expressions-emotions-gi... vim is great, but most of its great features are at the end of a very difficult (but necessary) learning curve. The learning curve for developing plugins is even steeper (and unnecessarily so). In contrast, most people can pick up and use textmate instantly. They can alter the extensions easily, since everything is done in a sane script environment (python/ruby). They can also share/alter/manage their extensions more easily without causing conflicts. Pathogen/vundle are recent vim plugins that finally make this easier for vimmers. In a sense, textmate changed the nature of what an editor was about. I think extensions are a large part of an editor's value now. ST2, vim, and others are now following textmate's approach, and I admit, they're doing a better job of it than textmate. However, you still have to give credit to the originator.
  - tincholio 14y ago
    > In a sense, textmate changed the nature of what an editor was about. I think extensions are a large part of an editor's value now. You've never used Emacs, have you?
  - jdonaldson 14y ago
    > You've never used Emacs, have you? I'm talking about light weight editors that support light weight scripting in a number of different languages. I consider emacs to be more IDE-like. That's admittedly a weak distinction though.
    - jasomill 14y ago
      emacsclient is about as lightweight as it gets, and Cocoa Emacs itself (24.1.50.1, built from the Git repository on Savannah this afternoon) starts up in less than 5 seconds on my Mac. As for "scripting in a number of different languages", that's more of an anti-feature for me. Specifically, running Emacs in a Windows, FreeBSD, Linux, Solaris, ... VM in VMware Fusion, I can symlink the init files and site-lisp directories in my guest OS home directory to the analogous items in my OS X home directory, and, given reasonably comparable fonts and Emacs versions, my Emacs configuration and most extensions work identically in the VMs. If, on the other hand, these extensions were written in a number of scripting languages rather than Emacs Lisp, I'd need to maintain a like number of scripting language runtimes in each guest OS. Given the amount of code I write in Emacs pales in comparison to the amount of contributed third-party code I use, the fact that I have to write it in Emacs Lisp is a vanishingly small price to pay. Besides that, for lightweight scripting at least, I actually like Emacs Lisp.
      - jdonaldson 14y ago
        I agree that emacs is losing its stigma of being/feeling bloated. Also, lisp is finding more practical applications through clojure. It seems like emacs should be on the upswing. So, charts like this (taken with a small grain of salt) are puzzling: http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=emacs&cmpt=q http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=emacs&cmpt=q

batista 14y ago

>"brilliantness"? Are you kidding? Have you worked with vimscript? Oh well, at the risk of feeding a troll... No, I haven't worked with vimscript. What does it have to do with anything? Vim/vi is a brilliant piece of editor software, with a solid concept (an editing language, the dual modes etc). And it is in continuous use for 30+ years now. Does anybody disagree with that? Now,vimscript being crap, or even it being totally absent, would not change those facts. In fact, most of the decades of vi/m using by hundreds of thousands of programmers have been without vimscript existing at all. Btw, please don't use the word "troll" out of context. I made an argument. Reply or ignore it, but don't use conversation killing words like "troll".

jdonaldson 14y ago
vimscript/viml, which is the basis of extending vim, regularly shows up as one of the worst languages to work with. http://geeksta.net/geeklog/exploring-expressions-emotions-github-commit-messages/ http://geeksta.net/geeklog/exploring-expressions-emotions-gi... vim is great, but most of its great features are at the end of a very difficult (but necessary) learning curve. The learning curve for developing plugins is even steeper (and unnecessarily so). In contrast, most people can pick up and use textmate instantly. They can alter the extensions easily, since everything is done in a sane script environment (python/ruby). They can also share/alter/manage their extensions more easily without causing conflicts. Pathogen/vundle are recent vim plugins that finally make this easier for vimmers. In a sense, textmate changed the nature of what an editor was about. I think extensions are a large part of an editor's value now. ST2, vim, and others are now following textmate's approach, and I admit, they're doing a better job of it than textmate. However, you still have to give credit to the originator.
- tincholio 14y ago
  > In a sense, textmate changed the nature of what an editor was about. I think extensions are a large part of an editor's value now. You've never used Emacs, have you?
- jdonaldson 14y ago
  > You've never used Emacs, have you? I'm talking about light weight editors that support light weight scripting in a number of different languages. I consider emacs to be more IDE-like. That's admittedly a weak distinction though.
  - jasomill 14y ago
    emacsclient is about as lightweight as it gets, and Cocoa Emacs itself (24.1.50.1, built from the Git repository on Savannah this afternoon) starts up in less than 5 seconds on my Mac. As for "scripting in a number of different languages", that's more of an anti-feature for me. Specifically, running Emacs in a Windows, FreeBSD, Linux, Solaris, ... VM in VMware Fusion, I can symlink the init files and site-lisp directories in my guest OS home directory to the analogous items in my OS X home directory, and, given reasonably comparable fonts and Emacs versions, my Emacs configuration and most extensions work identically in the VMs. If, on the other hand, these extensions were written in a number of scripting languages rather than Emacs Lisp, I'd need to maintain a like number of scripting language runtimes in each guest OS. Given the amount of code I write in Emacs pales in comparison to the amount of contributed third-party code I use, the fact that I have to write it in Emacs Lisp is a vanishingly small price to pay. Besides that, for lightweight scripting at least, I actually like Emacs Lisp.
    - jdonaldson 14y ago
      I agree that emacs is losing its stigma of being/feeling bloated. Also, lisp is finding more practical applications through clojure. It seems like emacs should be on the upswing. So, charts like this (taken with a small grain of salt) are puzzling: http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=emacs&cmpt=q http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=emacs&cmpt=q