3 ms·

When do the fission cheerleaders capitulate?

zozbot234 2y ago
The point of fission is that it still yields power even when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing. The alternative is to run gas peaker plants, or even dirtier sources like coal. Storage is a non-starter, even the best form of energy storage (pumped hydro) cannot cope with a dip lasting more than a few days or weeks.
- jeffbee 2y ago
  So, never, for your part, is what you are saying? Have you updated this copypasta at any time over the last 15 years?
- myrmidon 2y ago
  Gas peaker plants are not "the alternative" to nuclear power, they are exactly what nuclear power needs, too, because regulating nuclear plants down is not what you wanna do after investing billions into it-- you need those plants running on full tilt for like 90% of the time, and even then its gonna take decades to pay back the investment. Meanwhile, 1kW of solar with 1kWh of storage can be had for $1k on Amazon, yields 1-2MWh per year and pays for itself within the decade, with costs still trending down. Yes, fully getting rid of fossil gas is an ongoing challenge, but a much easier one than ramping up nuclear reactor build rates by a factor of 1000 or so...
- itishappy 2y ago
  Fission plants are way too expensive to let idle. They make ideal baseload plants, but they suck as peaking plants.
1970-01-01 2y ago
When volcanic eruptions are 100% predictable 3 years in advance.
tick_tock_tick 2y ago
I mean solar is basically worthless at any large scale if we get fission actually working. The fission dream will only die if we get to the point where solar/wind/etc and grid storage have gotten so cheap no one can make any money selling electricity.
- xyzzy123 2y ago
  Various parts of the energy sector (line maintenance in particular) seem to be hit pretty hard with cost disease & liabilities, plus there are often 2 or 3 companies, a market (being gamed), local authorities (that need a cut and have admin costs) and a regulatory structure between you and the power station. I dunno how it will all play out but given how "overhead" costs keep rising it's possible that private solar & storage costs drop low enough that its cheaper than grid power in many places despite being much less efficient from first principles. Physics vs beauracracy. From my perspective, prices for full "off grid" setup dictate the maximum that utilities can charge, basically the main thing keeping them honest at this point. The other thing to price in would be the likelihood of new taxes / fees or bans on local generation if it looks like the grid will hit a death spiral.

The point of fission is that it still yields power even when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing. The alternative is to run gas peaker plants, or even dirtier sources like coal. Storage is a non-starter, even the best form of energy storage (pumped hydro) cannot cope with a dip lasting more than a few days or weeks.

jeffbee 2y ago
So, never, for your part, is what you are saying? Have you updated this copypasta at any time over the last 15 years?
myrmidon 2y ago
Gas peaker plants are not "the alternative" to nuclear power, they are exactly what nuclear power needs, too, because regulating nuclear plants down is not what you wanna do after investing billions into it-- you need those plants running on full tilt for like 90% of the time, and even then its gonna take decades to pay back the investment. Meanwhile, 1kW of solar with 1kWh of storage can be had for $1k on Amazon, yields 1-2MWh per year and pays for itself within the decade, with costs still trending down. Yes, fully getting rid of fossil gas is an ongoing challenge, but a much easier one than ramping up nuclear reactor build rates by a factor of 1000 or so...
itishappy 2y ago
Fission plants are way too expensive to let idle. They make ideal baseload plants, but they suck as peaking plants.

1970-01-01 2y ago

When volcanic eruptions are 100% predictable 3 years in advance.

tick_tock_tick 2y ago

I mean solar is basically worthless at any large scale if we get fission actually working. The fission dream will only die if we get to the point where solar/wind/etc and grid storage have gotten so cheap no one can make any money selling electricity.

xyzzy123 2y ago
Various parts of the energy sector (line maintenance in particular) seem to be hit pretty hard with cost disease & liabilities, plus there are often 2 or 3 companies, a market (being gamed), local authorities (that need a cut and have admin costs) and a regulatory structure between you and the power station. I dunno how it will all play out but given how "overhead" costs keep rising it's possible that private solar & storage costs drop low enough that its cheaper than grid power in many places despite being much less efficient from first principles. Physics vs beauracracy. From my perspective, prices for full "off grid" setup dictate the maximum that utilities can charge, basically the main thing keeping them honest at this point. The other thing to price in would be the likelihood of new taxes / fees or bans on local generation if it looks like the grid will hit a death spiral.