42 ms·

There are many recruiters out there that will flat out reject someone if they aren't a perfect match for every single skill listed. I don't have a problem with

There are many recruiters out there that will flat out reject someone if they aren't a perfect match for every single skill listed. I don't have a problem with lying to get past that gauntlet.

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
Just don't be surprised when you're passed over because someone else lied harder, and be aware that, like them, you're harming honest applicants by lying. After all, it's the same game. That said, it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. A few thousand years doesn't cover a lot of evolution away from "fark you, I got mine".
- gosub100 2y ago
  > it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. Recruiters are harming me by taking a cut of my salary and offering nothing of value other than screening some calls and adding my resume to a spam listing and robodialer. Do you think I care about harming them
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    I'm sorry you feel hurt or harmed by someone. I've felt that, too, and it really sucks. It's not a good feeling. I avoid recruiters unless they can serve me well, too (increased salary, signing bonus, etc), instead preferring to applying directly to individual companies whose mission is interesting and whose culture matches mine. That said, I don't think hurt is a valid justification for hurting someone else, like the innocent parties I mentioned (potential future coworkers, other job applicants). That perpetuates a chain of hurt. Break the chain.
    - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
      Nobody's getting hurt when you can do the job. In fact you're doing them a favor by taking a job and making money for them.
      - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
        >> Nobody's getting hurt when you can do the job. > Beyond that, you'd be harming others by taking the job from someone who put in the work to actually be qualified, and harming your future coworkers by deceiving them. [0] > We're explicitly discussing someone lying about their abilities and experience, and thus not able to deliver what they said they can in their resume and/or interview. [0] 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43623155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43623155 If you wish to reply, it'd be appreciated if you could reply in the referenced thread where you originally made your above claims, and where they were originally refuted. Arguing the same claim over multiple posts seems like it'd be a waste of your time.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Employers pay big fees to recruiters who deliver qualified candidates. Recruiters are middlemen, and middlemen match customers with providers. For that, they get paid. They are not "harming" either, as the relationship and deals made are voluntary.
    - gosub100 2y ago
      They don't need a percentage of my salary. Why don't they work hourly like I do? I don't work for a percentage of the company's revenue
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        People who run businesses don't do it for an hourly wage.
        gosub100 2y ago
        "it's like that because that's how it is"
        WalterBright 2y ago
        If you ever decide to open your own busines, it'll be immediately apparent why you aren't paid by the hour. (You're paid the profit, if there is one.)
      - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
        Why would they take a percentage of your salary? You're the recruit. They're providing the business a service (good recruits who can fill a position), so they charge the business. You're providing the recruiter a service (being that good recruit), so they pay you in the form of a signing bonus. Additionally, since the employer pays the recruiter a percentage of one year's salary, the recruiter is incentivized to make that salary as high as possible, so they'll negotiate on your behalf in that regard.

There are many recruiters out there that will flat out reject someone if they aren't a perfect match for every single skill listed. I don't have a problem with lying to get past that gauntlet.

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago

Just don't be surprised when you're passed over because someone else lied harder, and be aware that, like them, you're harming honest applicants by lying. After all, it's the same game. That said, it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. A few thousand years doesn't cover a lot of evolution away from "fark you, I got mine".

gosub100 2y ago
> it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. Recruiters are harming me by taking a cut of my salary and offering nothing of value other than screening some calls and adding my resume to a spam listing and robodialer. Do you think I care about harming them
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  I'm sorry you feel hurt or harmed by someone. I've felt that, too, and it really sucks. It's not a good feeling. I avoid recruiters unless they can serve me well, too (increased salary, signing bonus, etc), instead preferring to applying directly to individual companies whose mission is interesting and whose culture matches mine. That said, I don't think hurt is a valid justification for hurting someone else, like the innocent parties I mentioned (potential future coworkers, other job applicants). That perpetuates a chain of hurt. Break the chain.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    Nobody's getting hurt when you can do the job. In fact you're doing them a favor by taking a job and making money for them.
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      >> Nobody's getting hurt when you can do the job. > Beyond that, you'd be harming others by taking the job from someone who put in the work to actually be qualified, and harming your future coworkers by deceiving them. [0] > We're explicitly discussing someone lying about their abilities and experience, and thus not able to deliver what they said they can in their resume and/or interview. [0] 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43623155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43623155 If you wish to reply, it'd be appreciated if you could reply in the referenced thread where you originally made your above claims, and where they were originally refuted. Arguing the same claim over multiple posts seems like it'd be a waste of your time.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Employers pay big fees to recruiters who deliver qualified candidates. Recruiters are middlemen, and middlemen match customers with providers. For that, they get paid. They are not "harming" either, as the relationship and deals made are voluntary.
  - gosub100 2y ago
    They don't need a percentage of my salary. Why don't they work hourly like I do? I don't work for a percentage of the company's revenue
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      People who run businesses don't do it for an hourly wage.
      - gosub100 2y ago
        "it's like that because that's how it is"
        WalterBright 2y ago
        If you ever decide to open your own busines, it'll be immediately apparent why you aren't paid by the hour. (You're paid the profit, if there is one.)
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      Why would they take a percentage of your salary? You're the recruit. They're providing the business a service (good recruits who can fill a position), so they charge the business. You're providing the recruiter a service (being that good recruit), so they pay you in the form of a signing bonus. Additionally, since the employer pays the recruiter a percentage of one year's salary, the recruiter is incentivized to make that salary as high as possible, so they'll negotiate on your behalf in that regard.