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> I am certain there are good people in North Korea but it would be hard to figure folks allegiances. A lifetime of propaganda can really do something to the mi

> I am certain there are good people in North Korea but it would be hard to figure folks allegiances. A lifetime of propaganda can really do something to the mind. What sources have taught you about life in Korea?

infecto 2y ago
Numerous different documentaries and individual travel videos. Like all things there is a bias but I am also not sure what your point is? Are you suggesting North Koreans are not subject to massive amounts of propaganda and indoctrination into this idea of the supreme leader? This is starting to feel like a flat earth discussion.
- dttze 2y ago
  You’re making broad, sweeping generalizations based off biased videos. If this is a flat earth discussion, you’re the flat earther.
  - infecto 2y ago
    I get it, nuance is hard, but this isn’t nuance, it’s lazy contrarianism. You’re not defending truth, you’re just allergic to anyone speaking plainly about a brutal dictatorship. If you’ve got a credible counterpoint, make it. Otherwise, tossing out “bias” like it’s a trump card isn’t an argument, it’s a dodge.
    - dttze 2y ago
      Once again, you made broad generalizations based off some videos you saw (who even knows how biased or truthful they were). You know nothing of NK and yet here you are confidently making statements about it and its people. It is typical western chauvinism and it is embarrassing to read you try to pretend it isn't.
      - infecto 2y ago
        Ah, there it is, “Western chauvinism,” the all-purpose dismissal when you’ve got no real counterargument. You’re not engaging with what I said, you’re just performing indignation. Yes, I’ve seen videos, read books, listened to defectors, and followed reports from Amnesty, the UN, and others. You? You’re just here to sneer at the idea that anyone outside North Korea could possibly know anything. That’s not humility, it’s nihilism in a moral disguise. You say I “know nothing” about North Korea. Maybe not everything. But I know enough to not reflexively defend a regime that starves its people while building monuments to a cult of personality. If that makes you uncomfortable, good.
        dttze 2y ago
        >Ah, there it is, “Western chauvinism,” the all-purpose dismissal when you’ve got no real counterargument. You’re not engaging with what I said, you’re just performing indignation. Gotta call a spade a spade sometimes, sorry bud. >Yes, I’ve seen videos, read books, listened to defectors, and followed reports from Amnesty, the UN, and others. You? You’re just here to sneer at the idea that anyone outside North Korea could possibly know anything. That’s not humility, it’s nihilism in a moral disguise. This isn't even an argument. You read things? Wow, me too. I read NK is awesome. They are trying to sustain their nation. Your repeating of biased western propaganda uncritically is the nihilism. > You say I “know nothing” about North Korea. Maybe not everything. But I know enough to not reflexively defend a regime that starves its people while building monuments to a cult of personality. If that makes you uncomfortable, good. I never even defended them. Just pointed out your ignorance and racism. Cheers. Nice edit btw.
        infecto 2y ago
        Thank you for finally bringing your silly antics to a conclusion. Sorry I don’t appreciate NK like you do but since you have no counterpoints and simply should trust you instead of reports from various NGOs and the UN you have run out of steam. The racist card is boring and over used. Build a backbone and a real opinion. We have decades of reports regarding NK please go elsewhere with your conspiracies.
- keybored 2y ago
  > Numerous different documentaries and individual travel videos. Like all things there is a bias but I am also not sure what your point is? Are you suggesting North Koreans are not subject to massive amounts of propaganda and indoctrination into this idea of the supreme leader? North Korea is famously one of the most closed-off countries in the world. Its Western-aligned neighbor is officially still at war with it. But at the same time people will make assertions with certainty about what North Korea is. North Korea is an unreliable narrator. So are South Korea and America because they are hostile to NK. And people in the West don’t trust whatever countries are aligned with North Korea. That’s the discrepancy—speaking boldly about the most closed off country in the world. Like documentaries and travel videos? Travel videos will be cherry-picked because of the government’s[1] policy of stalking and sheepherding all their tourists. That’s just one example from the NK side. We can also get into Western outlets making up NK fairytales based on no NK sources at all. > This is starting to feel like a flat earth discussion. Asking what level of information you have on a very closed-off country is comparable to denying a scientific fact that has been hypothesized for millenia, empirically proven probably for centuries, and can probably be empirically proven by an amateur scientist mountaineer? Oh yeah? Have you got any more tired cliches up your sleeve?[2] “Oh hush” to quote a HN user. [1] Or the regime if you prefer [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43618619 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43618619
  - infecto 2y ago
    You spent a lot of words saying “nobody knows anything” while conveniently ignoring the mountains of defectors’ testimonies, satellite imagery, and reports from human rights orgs that paint a bleak but consistent picture. But sure, let’s pretend the real problem is me not being epistemologically pure enough about the world’s most repressive regime. Your entire comment boils down to: “We can’t trust any sources, so how dare you have an opinion.” That’s not skepticism, that’s intellectual paralysis dressed up as nuance. And yes, invoking Flat Earth was apt—because entertaining every counter-narrative, no matter how unmoored from reality, in the name of balance is exactly how we ended up with people thinking the Earth is a disk. But by all means, tell me more about the utopia behind the DMZ, if not hush too. You have said a lot of nothing. What a world we live in. You cannot even call NK a repressive regime without folks jumping to point out how wrong you are. Maybe you need to go through the test your self and denounce the supreme leader.

infecto 2y ago

Numerous different documentaries and individual travel videos. Like all things there is a bias but I am also not sure what your point is? Are you suggesting North Koreans are not subject to massive amounts of propaganda and indoctrination into this idea of the supreme leader? This is starting to feel like a flat earth discussion.

dttze 2y ago
You’re making broad, sweeping generalizations based off biased videos. If this is a flat earth discussion, you’re the flat earther.
- infecto 2y ago
  I get it, nuance is hard, but this isn’t nuance, it’s lazy contrarianism. You’re not defending truth, you’re just allergic to anyone speaking plainly about a brutal dictatorship. If you’ve got a credible counterpoint, make it. Otherwise, tossing out “bias” like it’s a trump card isn’t an argument, it’s a dodge.
  - dttze 2y ago
    Once again, you made broad generalizations based off some videos you saw (who even knows how biased or truthful they were). You know nothing of NK and yet here you are confidently making statements about it and its people. It is typical western chauvinism and it is embarrassing to read you try to pretend it isn't.
    - infecto 2y ago
      Ah, there it is, “Western chauvinism,” the all-purpose dismissal when you’ve got no real counterargument. You’re not engaging with what I said, you’re just performing indignation. Yes, I’ve seen videos, read books, listened to defectors, and followed reports from Amnesty, the UN, and others. You? You’re just here to sneer at the idea that anyone outside North Korea could possibly know anything. That’s not humility, it’s nihilism in a moral disguise. You say I “know nothing” about North Korea. Maybe not everything. But I know enough to not reflexively defend a regime that starves its people while building monuments to a cult of personality. If that makes you uncomfortable, good.
      - dttze 2y ago
        >Ah, there it is, “Western chauvinism,” the all-purpose dismissal when you’ve got no real counterargument. You’re not engaging with what I said, you’re just performing indignation. Gotta call a spade a spade sometimes, sorry bud. >Yes, I’ve seen videos, read books, listened to defectors, and followed reports from Amnesty, the UN, and others. You? You’re just here to sneer at the idea that anyone outside North Korea could possibly know anything. That’s not humility, it’s nihilism in a moral disguise. This isn't even an argument. You read things? Wow, me too. I read NK is awesome. They are trying to sustain their nation. Your repeating of biased western propaganda uncritically is the nihilism. > You say I “know nothing” about North Korea. Maybe not everything. But I know enough to not reflexively defend a regime that starves its people while building monuments to a cult of personality. If that makes you uncomfortable, good. I never even defended them. Just pointed out your ignorance and racism. Cheers. Nice edit btw.
        infecto 2y ago
        Thank you for finally bringing your silly antics to a conclusion. Sorry I don’t appreciate NK like you do but since you have no counterpoints and simply should trust you instead of reports from various NGOs and the UN you have run out of steam. The racist card is boring and over used. Build a backbone and a real opinion. We have decades of reports regarding NK please go elsewhere with your conspiracies.
keybored 2y ago
> Numerous different documentaries and individual travel videos. Like all things there is a bias but I am also not sure what your point is? Are you suggesting North Koreans are not subject to massive amounts of propaganda and indoctrination into this idea of the supreme leader? North Korea is famously one of the most closed-off countries in the world. Its Western-aligned neighbor is officially still at war with it. But at the same time people will make assertions with certainty about what North Korea is. North Korea is an unreliable narrator. So are South Korea and America because they are hostile to NK. And people in the West don’t trust whatever countries are aligned with North Korea. That’s the discrepancy—speaking boldly about the most closed off country in the world. Like documentaries and travel videos? Travel videos will be cherry-picked because of the government’s[1] policy of stalking and sheepherding all their tourists. That’s just one example from the NK side. We can also get into Western outlets making up NK fairytales based on no NK sources at all. > This is starting to feel like a flat earth discussion. Asking what level of information you have on a very closed-off country is comparable to denying a scientific fact that has been hypothesized for millenia, empirically proven probably for centuries, and can probably be empirically proven by an amateur scientist mountaineer? Oh yeah? Have you got any more tired cliches up your sleeve?[2] “Oh hush” to quote a HN user. [1] Or the regime if you prefer [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43618619 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43618619
- infecto 2y ago
  You spent a lot of words saying “nobody knows anything” while conveniently ignoring the mountains of defectors’ testimonies, satellite imagery, and reports from human rights orgs that paint a bleak but consistent picture. But sure, let’s pretend the real problem is me not being epistemologically pure enough about the world’s most repressive regime. Your entire comment boils down to: “We can’t trust any sources, so how dare you have an opinion.” That’s not skepticism, that’s intellectual paralysis dressed up as nuance. And yes, invoking Flat Earth was apt—because entertaining every counter-narrative, no matter how unmoored from reality, in the name of balance is exactly how we ended up with people thinking the Earth is a disk. But by all means, tell me more about the utopia behind the DMZ, if not hush too. You have said a lot of nothing. What a world we live in. You cannot even call NK a repressive regime without folks jumping to point out how wrong you are. Maybe you need to go through the test your self and denounce the supreme leader.