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>I don't think Textmate deserved all that success --it should have happened to a better editor. This doesn't make much sense. You say it appeared at the right

>I don't think Textmate deserved all that success --it should have happened to a better editor. This doesn't make much sense. You say it appeared at the right time and was pretty and native on OS X. What better editors deserved the success it had that were available when TextMate was popular? Which editors were available on OS X that weren't giant IDEs or VIM and Emacs style editors that have a ridiculously steep learning curve? I've never understood when people say something or someone doesn't deserve something they've earned. TextMate is successful because lots of people bought it. Who are you to judge what deserves to be successful and what doesn't, especially when history seems to disagree with you?

hyperbovine 14y ago
The early and enthusiastic support of DHH / the Rails community had a lot to do with the initial success of TextMate. Whether this was 'deserved' is too subjective to be worth debating. It happened, and TextMate took off as a result.
- techiferous 14y ago
  Community effects can never bring a poor technology to the top. They can keep a great technology from overtaking a good technology, though. But TextMate's success was not only from the community support, but also from its capabilities. Snippets were one of its cool features, for example, that helped it gain success.
  - theshadow 14y ago
    Vim has snippets too. I'm sure there's an Eclipse/Visual Studio plugin that provides the same functionality. There's really nothing revolutionary in here.
    - wahnfrieden 14y ago
      They came built-in with TextMate - big difference to be a first-class member of the editor.
    - techiferous 14y ago
      Thanks for pointing this out, and I don't disagree. It's debatable whether TextMate was revolutionary or a huge leap ahead of the competition at the time. But batista claimed that "Textmate was always a sub-par editor" and implied that its success was due to hype, not its capabilities, which I find hard to accept as true. I'm not claiming that TextMate was the best choice, just that it's unfair to call it a bad choice or sub-par. It was a very solid, decent text editor.
    - ThePherocity 14y ago
      Vim does have snippets, the plugin is called snip-mate. Why do you suppose that is? ;)
      - brabram 14y ago
        Vim has dozen of snippet scripts: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script_search_results.php?keywords=snippet&script_type=&order_by=rating&direction=descending&search=search http://www.vim.org/scripts/script_search_results.php?keyword...
        ThePherocity 14y ago
        They do, but 2 of the top 3 mention TextMate in the title!!
      - Plugawy 14y ago
        Vim had abbreviations way before TextMate has been created. Think about that.
    - 89a 14y ago
      Doesn't matter, you'd still have to learn Vim first. Textmate is about bringing unix and scripting power to people who don't have time to learn an esoteric system
      - pera 14y ago
        > people who don't have time to learn an esoteric system if they had time to learn a programming language why they don't have time to learn how to speak with Vim? also I don't think that vim commands are more "esoteric" than (eg) objective-c and actually, if you are short of time then you should learn to code faster with a faster text editor like Vim (or Emacs of you prefer..) imo the real problem is laziness
    - stefanix 14y ago
      textmate is appealing because it always had a great default configuration. For many people getting old-school editors to play well required too much config ninjaing.
batista 14y ago
>This doesn't make much sense. You say it appeared at the right time and was pretty and native on OS X. What better editors deserved the success it had that were available when TextMate was popular? The fact that there wasn't another editor that fulfilled all those "needs" at the time (mainly: simple, native looking) does not mean that it deserved it's success. What I'm saying is, it got its success not because it was better than the competition but because there was no competition. So, I just wish that something better was available at the time with the wanted features (mainly: simple to use and native looking). It would have been better for all in the long run. >I've never understood when people say something or someone doesn't deserve something they've earned. You can earn something for lots of reasons, not always the best of reasons. Nixon got the vote, doesn't mean he also deserved it. >TextMate is successful because lots of people bought it. Who are you to judge what deserves to be successful and what doesn't, especially when history seems to disagree with you? Actually history seems to agree with me. Did you miss the part when the promised 2 was worked on for 6 years, got nowhere, delivered a disappointing alpha and got dump half-heartedly (as in with GPLv3, with the intention to continue commercial development) on GitHub?
- mdemare 14y ago
  > The fact that there wasn't another editor that fulfilled all those "needs" at the time (mainly: simple, native looking) does not mean that it deserved it's success. What I'm saying is, it got its success not because it was better than the competition but because there was no competition. What kind of doublespeak is that? If there's a race, and you're the only one who shows up, you deserve to win, period.
  - KingMob 14y ago
    Uhh, the same doublespeak as pointing out that if you're the only one to show up for a race, you're also the one that came in last?
  - batista 14y ago
    >What kind of doublespeak is that? If there's a race, and you're the only one who shows up, you deserve to win, period. It's not doublespeak, it's common sense. If "you're the only one who shows up" it's not much of a race (or a victory).
grandalf 14y ago
Two points worth mentioning. Emacs 2.4 comes with many features by default that shrink the learning curve. And most importantly, check out Technomancy's emacs starter kit. It even comes with a package that lets Textmate users keep using their familiar keyboard shortcuts if they want.
- hexagonal 14y ago
  Not 2.4. 24. You're 22 and a half version numbers short. Emacs is more than 30 years old, remember.
  - grandalf 14y ago
    typo :)

hyperbovine 14y ago

The early and enthusiastic support of DHH / the Rails community had a lot to do with the initial success of TextMate. Whether this was 'deserved' is too subjective to be worth debating. It happened, and TextMate took off as a result.

techiferous 14y ago
Community effects can never bring a poor technology to the top. They can keep a great technology from overtaking a good technology, though. But TextMate's success was not only from the community support, but also from its capabilities. Snippets were one of its cool features, for example, that helped it gain success.
- theshadow 14y ago
  Vim has snippets too. I'm sure there's an Eclipse/Visual Studio plugin that provides the same functionality. There's really nothing revolutionary in here.
  - wahnfrieden 14y ago
    They came built-in with TextMate - big difference to be a first-class member of the editor.
  - techiferous 14y ago
    Thanks for pointing this out, and I don't disagree. It's debatable whether TextMate was revolutionary or a huge leap ahead of the competition at the time. But batista claimed that "Textmate was always a sub-par editor" and implied that its success was due to hype, not its capabilities, which I find hard to accept as true. I'm not claiming that TextMate was the best choice, just that it's unfair to call it a bad choice or sub-par. It was a very solid, decent text editor.
  - ThePherocity 14y ago
    Vim does have snippets, the plugin is called snip-mate. Why do you suppose that is? ;)
    - brabram 14y ago
      Vim has dozen of snippet scripts: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script_search_results.php?keywords=snippet&script_type=&order_by=rating&direction=descending&search=search http://www.vim.org/scripts/script_search_results.php?keyword...
      - ThePherocity 14y ago
        They do, but 2 of the top 3 mention TextMate in the title!!
    - Plugawy 14y ago
      Vim had abbreviations way before TextMate has been created. Think about that.
  - 89a 14y ago
    Doesn't matter, you'd still have to learn Vim first. Textmate is about bringing unix and scripting power to people who don't have time to learn an esoteric system
    - pera 14y ago
      > people who don't have time to learn an esoteric system if they had time to learn a programming language why they don't have time to learn how to speak with Vim? also I don't think that vim commands are more "esoteric" than (eg) objective-c and actually, if you are short of time then you should learn to code faster with a faster text editor like Vim (or Emacs of you prefer..) imo the real problem is laziness
  - stefanix 14y ago
    textmate is appealing because it always had a great default configuration. For many people getting old-school editors to play well required too much config ninjaing.

batista 14y ago

>This doesn't make much sense. You say it appeared at the right time and was pretty and native on OS X. What better editors deserved the success it had that were available when TextMate was popular? The fact that there wasn't another editor that fulfilled all those "needs" at the time (mainly: simple, native looking) does not mean that it deserved it's success. What I'm saying is, it got its success not because it was better than the competition but because there was no competition. So, I just wish that something better was available at the time with the wanted features (mainly: simple to use and native looking). It would have been better for all in the long run. >I've never understood when people say something or someone doesn't deserve something they've earned. You can earn something for lots of reasons, not always the best of reasons. Nixon got the vote, doesn't mean he also deserved it. >TextMate is successful because lots of people bought it. Who are you to judge what deserves to be successful and what doesn't, especially when history seems to disagree with you? Actually history seems to agree with me. Did you miss the part when the promised 2 was worked on for 6 years, got nowhere, delivered a disappointing alpha and got dump half-heartedly (as in with GPLv3, with the intention to continue commercial development) on GitHub?

mdemare 14y ago
> The fact that there wasn't another editor that fulfilled all those "needs" at the time (mainly: simple, native looking) does not mean that it deserved it's success. What I'm saying is, it got its success not because it was better than the competition but because there was no competition. What kind of doublespeak is that? If there's a race, and you're the only one who shows up, you deserve to win, period.
- KingMob 14y ago
  Uhh, the same doublespeak as pointing out that if you're the only one to show up for a race, you're also the one that came in last?
- batista 14y ago
  >What kind of doublespeak is that? If there's a race, and you're the only one who shows up, you deserve to win, period. It's not doublespeak, it's common sense. If "you're the only one who shows up" it's not much of a race (or a victory).

grandalf 14y ago

Two points worth mentioning. Emacs 2.4 comes with many features by default that shrink the learning curve. And most importantly, check out Technomancy's emacs starter kit. It even comes with a package that lets Textmate users keep using their familiar keyboard shortcuts if they want.

hexagonal 14y ago
Not 2.4. 24. You're 22 and a half version numbers short. Emacs is more than 30 years old, remember.
- grandalf 14y ago
  typo :)