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I’ve always wondered: is there a LeetCode equivalent for doctors? When a hospital interviews a surgeon, do they roll out a cadaver and ask them to remove the ga

I’ve always wondered: is there a LeetCode equivalent for doctors? When a hospital interviews a surgeon, do they roll out a cadaver and ask them to remove the gall bladder in 15 minutes while the interviewer scrutinizes how they hold the scalpel?

Apocryphon 2y ago
It’s because medicine, with its residencies and HN-mocked credentialism, is closer to traditional craftsmanship and the progression of apprentice-journeyman-master than the “every hacker for themselves” world of modern tech.
- re-thc 2y ago
  > is closer to traditional craftsmanship and the progression of apprentice-journeyman-master than the “every hacker for themselves”. Let's fix the real problem then? Why can't tech be like this?
  - motorest 2y ago
    > Let's fix the real problem then? Why can't tech be like this? Why should it? What problems would they solve? Are you so afraid of competing with those who might not get a certiciation?
    - Apocryphon 2y ago
      Well, it'd be nice if they reintroduced proper training of new tech workers, rather than outsourcing it to universities ("not supposed to be trade schools") or relying on internships/co-ops which these days are often nearly as competitive to be hired for as actual jobs. Formalized apprenticeships could help with that, as well as impart a proper culture of craftsmanship. And as far as certs go, just having a simple one for algorithms/data structures can seriously fix the issue of having to go through the Leetcode gauntlet at every single place one interviews at. A certificate for that class of questions would go a long way towards smoothing the existing interview process. DRY, anyone?
    - re-thc 2y ago
      > Why should it? What problems would they solve? We clearly do have a problem. No 1 learns from past mistakes. We keep reinventing the wheel e.g. the land of NodeJs, Javascript, etc. Even within companies there's no learnings passed down. Each new hire thinks they're the best and tries to redo it all. > Are you so afraid of competing with those who might not get a certiciation? I rather compete on certification than compete on leet code. Do you miss the point that the whole leet code system has nothing to do with any job? At least certification might be slightly be relevant.
- motorest 2y ago
  > It’s because medicine, with its residencies and HN-mocked credentialism,(...) The whole point of credentials is that they are designed to be revoked. That's their whole point. If your credentials are pulled, you lose your ability to practice. That's by design. They are not gate-keeping tools. They are "this guy killed patients, so let's keep him far away from them" tools.
ThrowawayR2 2y ago
In the US, candidates to become physicians go through a 5-7 year residency which has low pay, dangerously long hours, and has a supervisor watching over them who can flunk them for failing to meet their standards. That's _after_ a normal bachelors degree and then medical school. Does that sound like something anyone would like to go through to become a software developer just to avoid technical interviews?
- sarchertech 2y ago
  It’s not just medicine. No other job does solve this question on a whiteboard style interviews for anyone other than new grads. The closest thing you’ll find is actors and musicians auditioning. But performing is an actually a part of their job. Nurses only have 4 years of school and they don’t have whiteboard interview equivalents. Medical technicians don’t either and they don’t even have degrees in most cases. Also one minor correction most residencies are 3 years, although some are longer.

Apocryphon 2y ago

It’s because medicine, with its residencies and HN-mocked credentialism, is closer to traditional craftsmanship and the progression of apprentice-journeyman-master than the “every hacker for themselves” world of modern tech.

re-thc 2y ago
> is closer to traditional craftsmanship and the progression of apprentice-journeyman-master than the “every hacker for themselves”. Let's fix the real problem then? Why can't tech be like this?
- motorest 2y ago
  > Let's fix the real problem then? Why can't tech be like this? Why should it? What problems would they solve? Are you so afraid of competing with those who might not get a certiciation?
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    Well, it'd be nice if they reintroduced proper training of new tech workers, rather than outsourcing it to universities ("not supposed to be trade schools") or relying on internships/co-ops which these days are often nearly as competitive to be hired for as actual jobs. Formalized apprenticeships could help with that, as well as impart a proper culture of craftsmanship. And as far as certs go, just having a simple one for algorithms/data structures can seriously fix the issue of having to go through the Leetcode gauntlet at every single place one interviews at. A certificate for that class of questions would go a long way towards smoothing the existing interview process. DRY, anyone?
  - re-thc 2y ago
    > Why should it? What problems would they solve? We clearly do have a problem. No 1 learns from past mistakes. We keep reinventing the wheel e.g. the land of NodeJs, Javascript, etc. Even within companies there's no learnings passed down. Each new hire thinks they're the best and tries to redo it all. > Are you so afraid of competing with those who might not get a certiciation? I rather compete on certification than compete on leet code. Do you miss the point that the whole leet code system has nothing to do with any job? At least certification might be slightly be relevant.
motorest 2y ago
> It’s because medicine, with its residencies and HN-mocked credentialism,(...) The whole point of credentials is that they are designed to be revoked. That's their whole point. If your credentials are pulled, you lose your ability to practice. That's by design. They are not gate-keeping tools. They are "this guy killed patients, so let's keep him far away from them" tools.

ThrowawayR2 2y ago

In the US, candidates to become physicians go through a 5-7 year residency which has low pay, dangerously long hours, and has a supervisor watching over them who can flunk them for failing to meet their standards. That's _after_ a normal bachelors degree and then medical school. Does that sound like something anyone would like to go through to become a software developer just to avoid technical interviews?

sarchertech 2y ago
It’s not just medicine. No other job does solve this question on a whiteboard style interviews for anyone other than new grads. The closest thing you’ll find is actors and musicians auditioning. But performing is an actually a part of their job. Nurses only have 4 years of school and they don’t have whiteboard interview equivalents. Medical technicians don’t either and they don’t even have degrees in most cases. Also one minor correction most residencies are 3 years, although some are longer.