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Except we know certain chemicals are harmful, and we have no idea about the long term effects of many others. We also have a history of using materials we don’t

Except we know certain chemicals are harmful, and we have no idea about the long term effects of many others. We also have a history of using materials we don’t understand and only stopping after it kills or harms enough people.

randomcarbloke 2y ago
you just sound like an anti-vaxer, one of those UPF fearmongering cultists.
jcranmer 2y ago
The problem with this worldview is that it dramatically underestimates the harm of "natural" products compared to "artificial" products. You see, if it's fermented grape juice, it's "natural", and so it's a complex flavor profile. But if you actually list out what's in it, it's a lot of toxic chemicals banned as food additives, and synthetic wine is illegal as a result. And you can't omit the egregiously toxic stuff because it makes the test came out wrong.
- IAmBroom 2y ago
  Your assumptions about beverage law are dead wrong. "Synthetic wine", whatever you mean by that, is not "illegal". And beverage makers actually have much more freedom than ordinary food makers in their choices of ingredients.
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    Synthetic wine is the name for people who are trying to create wine from its chemical ingredients rather than from the natural process of fermentation. There was an article several years back about one of these groups trying to get regulatory approval to sell their product, and the stumbling block was the use of things that weren't approved additives. (I want to say it was tannins, since that's the most overtly problematic chemical in wine, but it has been several years since I've seen the article, so I could be mixing it up for one of the other carcinogens involved).
IAmBroom 2y ago
You mean like caffeine and fried animal fat? :D
- haswell 2y ago
  My point wasn't that there are no naturally occurring harms, but that foods which on their own are otherwise considered safe may take on a different safety profile when altered depending on the nature of that alteration. e.g. we're beginning to realize that eating highly processed meats on a regular basis can cause GI problems/cancer in the long run while eating some of the components individually and prepared differently does not.

randomcarbloke 2y ago

you just sound like an anti-vaxer, one of those UPF fearmongering cultists.

jcranmer 2y ago

The problem with this worldview is that it dramatically underestimates the harm of "natural" products compared to "artificial" products. You see, if it's fermented grape juice, it's "natural", and so it's a complex flavor profile. But if you actually list out what's in it, it's a lot of toxic chemicals banned as food additives, and synthetic wine is illegal as a result. And you can't omit the egregiously toxic stuff because it makes the test came out wrong.

IAmBroom 2y ago
Your assumptions about beverage law are dead wrong. "Synthetic wine", whatever you mean by that, is not "illegal". And beverage makers actually have much more freedom than ordinary food makers in their choices of ingredients.
- jcranmer 2y ago
  Synthetic wine is the name for people who are trying to create wine from its chemical ingredients rather than from the natural process of fermentation. There was an article several years back about one of these groups trying to get regulatory approval to sell their product, and the stumbling block was the use of things that weren't approved additives. (I want to say it was tannins, since that's the most overtly problematic chemical in wine, but it has been several years since I've seen the article, so I could be mixing it up for one of the other carcinogens involved).

IAmBroom 2y ago

You mean like caffeine and fried animal fat? :D

haswell 2y ago
My point wasn't that there are no naturally occurring harms, but that foods which on their own are otherwise considered safe may take on a different safety profile when altered depending on the nature of that alteration. e.g. we're beginning to realize that eating highly processed meats on a regular basis can cause GI problems/cancer in the long run while eating some of the components individually and prepared differently does not.