4 ms·

I think we can safely assume that Tesla, in it's current state, is done for. I wouldn't bet on it. People have short memories, and Tesla still make pretty good

by dagw 2y ago

I think we can safely assume that Tesla, in it's current state, is done for. I wouldn't bet on it. People have short memories, and Tesla still make pretty good cars. The new model Y launching now has gotten a lot of praise from all the reviews I've seen. If (big if) Musk can keep his head down and stop making non car/spaceship related headlines and perhaps take a less prominent role in Tesla, I suspect this will blow over.

CharlieDigital 2y ago
The problem is the market dynamic of EVs. The people most likely to buy EVs are also the people that Elon has alienated. Your average red-state voter is not very likely on the EV bandwagon. There was a period of time when Tesla was the only game in town for EVs. Now? That's not the case anymore with multiple automakers with competitive if not flat out better products, wider dealer and service networks, and compatibility with Tesla's charging network. The brand damage he's done has been immense.
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  If the White House Tesla sales event converted any of them, it will be very short-term blip. Mainline ICE companies take their branding dead seriously, unlike apparently Tesla and its CEO. Their very existence is based on the macho masculinity paranoid male pickup truck driver. There's no way they cede that in any way to Elon and Tesla. Tesla's pass for the next 10 years was still going to be through progressive buyers. It really shocks me that people are so ignorant about branding and advertising to not recognize what Elon did to his own brand. I thought everybody in the country had seen Mad Men at a minimum. Ever since the release of the model y, Tesla has been run utterly incompetently. After the model Y release, Tesla showed embarked upon a model, expansion and platform expansion in order to expand into global markets which probably would require six platforms and well over 20 different variations and trims. They should have started in a low end and high-end brand vastly increased their fit and finish options They probably should have merged with another struggling ICE company like Nissan or something to gain a lot of engineers and manufacturing capacity and OEM relationships. They should have started pushing their advanced drive train to phevs using this other car company. They should have pushed their brand into things like e-bikes scooters, side by sides and a lot of other electrification opportunities where they could both make Superior products and push their brand to further places. Build more competence with more users to gateway them into EV ownership. Obviously all this is too little too late
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    Rivian seems like the one that is going to have a lasting footprint. Much, much slower growth, but the How I Built This podcast episode with RJ Scaringe[0] convinced me that he's the real deal and all the things that people thought Musk was. Scaringe is an actual engineer and has plodded a careful, sustainable path for Rivian. We'll see how it works out, but I was pretty impressed by the interview. [0] https://wondery.com/shows/how-i-built-this/episode/10386-rivian-rj-scaringe/ https://wondery.com/shows/how-i-built-this/episode/10386-riv...
    - dagw 2y ago
      The big question for Rivian is if they can break into the global market or if they will remain an essential North America only brand. Say what you want about Tesla, but they were really the first US car in forever that really broke through internationally.
      - CharlieDigital 2y ago
        Rivian's pace of growth is far more measured (podcast very much worth the listen) and I think that until their smaller models arrive, their growth is going to be more constrained. The R3X is probably the first product that will make sense for an international market (since the R1T and R1S are both quite large) and that's not coming until 2027.
8fingerlouie 2y ago
The thing is, in Europe at least, it was never about Tesla, it was always about Elon Musk doing the so called "roman salute", doing stuff that borders on election interference in Germany with the AfD, and Vance just kinda made it worse, which somehow also backfired on Elon. The reason people in europe are not buying Teslas is because of Elon Musk, and regarding short memories, just about everybody i know, technically skilled or not, still knows that Steve Jobs was "the face of Apple", despite some of them not even being born when he died. People remember Elon Musk the same way with Tesla, and i don't see that going away soon.
- tim333 2y ago
  Maybe if Musk changed course and returned to solar power and saving the planet rather than alt right politics things would improve? Not sure if that's happening though.
  - 8fingerlouie 2y ago
    The “hate” for Elon is strong in Europe. I seriously doubt there’s any coming back with him at the wheel. We already had one fascist leader in Europe, and we really don’t want another one, so Elon coming out as a full Nazi did immense damage to his personal and commercial brand. That’s also at least partly the reason for the strong dislike for the current US administration in Europe. Trump, Vance and more have openly supported the extreme right, made baseless accusations about censorship, and worse. It’s way beyond a political belief, in Europe it’s personal.
  - ulfw 2y ago
    Who would be stupid enough to believe him ever again?
- illiac786 2y ago
  I agree for people who can afford a Tesla. There’s a whole world out there that couldn’t care less because it was always way beyond their budget anyway. I also think that people won’t exactly remember what he did but as usual, what will stay are emotions. And at the moment it’s simply embarrassing to be associated with Elon —Tesla owner bashing is irresistible for some, they make sure these owners will remember the embarrassment.

by dagw 2y ago

CharlieDigital 2y ago

The problem is the market dynamic of EVs. The people most likely to buy EVs are also the people that Elon has alienated. Your average red-state voter is not very likely on the EV bandwagon. There was a period of time when Tesla was the only game in town for EVs. Now? That's not the case anymore with multiple automakers with competitive if not flat out better products, wider dealer and service networks, and compatibility with Tesla's charging network. The brand damage he's done has been immense.

AtlasBarfed 2y ago
If the White House Tesla sales event converted any of them, it will be very short-term blip. Mainline ICE companies take their branding dead seriously, unlike apparently Tesla and its CEO. Their very existence is based on the macho masculinity paranoid male pickup truck driver. There's no way they cede that in any way to Elon and Tesla. Tesla's pass for the next 10 years was still going to be through progressive buyers. It really shocks me that people are so ignorant about branding and advertising to not recognize what Elon did to his own brand. I thought everybody in the country had seen Mad Men at a minimum. Ever since the release of the model y, Tesla has been run utterly incompetently. After the model Y release, Tesla showed embarked upon a model, expansion and platform expansion in order to expand into global markets which probably would require six platforms and well over 20 different variations and trims. They should have started in a low end and high-end brand vastly increased their fit and finish options They probably should have merged with another struggling ICE company like Nissan or something to gain a lot of engineers and manufacturing capacity and OEM relationships. They should have started pushing their advanced drive train to phevs using this other car company. They should have pushed their brand into things like e-bikes scooters, side by sides and a lot of other electrification opportunities where they could both make Superior products and push their brand to further places. Build more competence with more users to gateway them into EV ownership. Obviously all this is too little too late
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  Rivian seems like the one that is going to have a lasting footprint. Much, much slower growth, but the How I Built This podcast episode with RJ Scaringe[0] convinced me that he's the real deal and all the things that people thought Musk was. Scaringe is an actual engineer and has plodded a careful, sustainable path for Rivian. We'll see how it works out, but I was pretty impressed by the interview. [0] https://wondery.com/shows/how-i-built-this/episode/10386-rivian-rj-scaringe/ https://wondery.com/shows/how-i-built-this/episode/10386-riv...
  - dagw 2y ago
    The big question for Rivian is if they can break into the global market or if they will remain an essential North America only brand. Say what you want about Tesla, but they were really the first US car in forever that really broke through internationally.
    - CharlieDigital 2y ago
      Rivian's pace of growth is far more measured (podcast very much worth the listen) and I think that until their smaller models arrive, their growth is going to be more constrained. The R3X is probably the first product that will make sense for an international market (since the R1T and R1S are both quite large) and that's not coming until 2027.

8fingerlouie 2y ago

The thing is, in Europe at least, it was never about Tesla, it was always about Elon Musk doing the so called "roman salute", doing stuff that borders on election interference in Germany with the AfD, and Vance just kinda made it worse, which somehow also backfired on Elon. The reason people in europe are not buying Teslas is because of Elon Musk, and regarding short memories, just about everybody i know, technically skilled or not, still knows that Steve Jobs was "the face of Apple", despite some of them not even being born when he died. People remember Elon Musk the same way with Tesla, and i don't see that going away soon.

tim333 2y ago
Maybe if Musk changed course and returned to solar power and saving the planet rather than alt right politics things would improve? Not sure if that's happening though.
- 8fingerlouie 2y ago
  The “hate” for Elon is strong in Europe. I seriously doubt there’s any coming back with him at the wheel. We already had one fascist leader in Europe, and we really don’t want another one, so Elon coming out as a full Nazi did immense damage to his personal and commercial brand. That’s also at least partly the reason for the strong dislike for the current US administration in Europe. Trump, Vance and more have openly supported the extreme right, made baseless accusations about censorship, and worse. It’s way beyond a political belief, in Europe it’s personal.
- ulfw 2y ago
  Who would be stupid enough to believe him ever again?
illiac786 2y ago
I agree for people who can afford a Tesla. There’s a whole world out there that couldn’t care less because it was always way beyond their budget anyway. I also think that people won’t exactly remember what he did but as usual, what will stay are emotions. And at the moment it’s simply embarrassing to be associated with Elon —Tesla owner bashing is irresistible for some, they make sure these owners will remember the embarrassment.