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All tech is becoming more and more integrated and purposefully locked down. Everything from operating systems to cars. It’s truly a shame. I think many of us ti

All tech is becoming more and more integrated and purposefully locked down. Everything from operating systems to cars. It’s truly a shame. I think many of us tinkerers/hackers have a similar story to yours - something grabs your attention when you’re a child and develops into an engineering knack later on.

vladms 2y ago
All tech or all physical tech? For now software managed to somehow go in the opposite direction. In the '90s many / lots of operating systems / tools / libraries were paid / hard to access, today we have lots of (open-source) stuff for people to tinker with. Tinkering with physical stuff is also good and should be encouraged / supported, but let's also be careful not to loose the software tinkering (for example by not permitting in any shape rooting mobile devices).
- coretx 2y ago
  No, most people are stuffing everything into the application layer, or worse, a web/mobile app these days and don't know how to fix anything below it. I know many "programmers" who can neither configure a SME/Enterprise firewall or switch nor build their own PC or server from parts. Also, during the 90's everything was easy to find and access. Piracy was the norm and FOSS was booming.
  - vladms 2y ago
    The field exploded though, both in terms of complexity and of number of people involved. I know many engineers that can do from compiler optimizations to web apps. I also know "programmers" that don't want to learn a new library because it stresses them. Lots of tech we currently rely on is built under FOSS model (thinking web stuff, mobile stuff, os stuff, data center stuff). Of course you must choose to use it, but I find nowadays using Linux daily on desktop as easy as using Windows or MacOS. 20 years ago you had to fight drivers, file formats, browser issues, media formats, lack of software (I mean we run many Windows video-games on Linux without issues, how cool is that?!) I did not check piracy lately because I find FOSS alternatives (or I can afford to buy some stuff).
    - coretx 2y ago
      The house of cards is build with far more than just libs. And everything you just mentioned came at a price.
  - foobarchu 2y ago
    > I know many "programmers" who can neither configure a SME/Enterprise firewall or switch This is a very weird baseline to use for qualifying a programmer. Firewall configuration is completely irrelevant for most programmers and has been for decades. It is objectively not a programming task, it's just something that might get foisted upon a programmer if there is nobody else to do it.
    - chupy 2y ago
      Not op but how I understood it is that until recently the majority of programmers were geeks and liked to tinker and understand the systems they were writing and deploying code on. Not sure that this is the case now, nonetheless it can be a good thing that people are specializing and concerned just on the frameworks or design patterns.
- const_cast 2y ago
  [dead]
- Nextgrid 2y ago
  Even proprietary software in those times was accessible via piracy, and was generally tolerated/accepted as long as it wasn't for profit (in fact it benefited the software authors by allowing users to learn the usage of their software, for which they'd then push their future employers to buy).
HPsquared 2y ago
We (in the West, at least) live in an age of vendor lock-in. In the East, it's state lock-in but vendor freedom.
- intrasight 2y ago
  There are plenty of places where both are locked in
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    I suppose, but they are free to pirate Disney movies or whatever. Maybe "freedom" wasn't the right word for lack of IP protection.
einpoklum 2y ago
> Everything from operating systems ... The subtle reference to systemd has not escaped our notice; and it is truly a shame.
yason 2y ago
Question is what domain/field is the next virgin frontier for hackers, unspoiled of commercial greed and integrated and locked down solutions, where you can still not only buy things but also own them, and rebuild from parts what you bought when it breaks down?
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  There are all sorts of things like this, but one that springs to mind is drones, specifically FPV drones. You can build a very good drone from basically parts that runs on open firmware. The videos that you see coming out of Ukraine is clearly using flight control software that is basically the standard for non commercial drones. Nothing more cyberpunk than fighting fascists using open source software and commodity hardware.
  - 9rx 2y ago
    What seems to be lacking is the path to accidental discovery that underlies these stories from the past. Is there a reasonable way people will find themselves building drones without being intentional about it?
    - saidinesh5 2y ago
      Not accidental, but government restrictions are the main reason people built their own drones here. Government banned import of drones here back then. Only way to fly and have fun was build your own. build them part by part. I have built them for dozens of non technical friends too. And then they themselves got into fixing them once they broke. Solder the wires. Get parts 3d printed etc..
    - dghlsakjg 2y ago
      The normal progression is that you had a commercially built one, and one of two things happened. 1. It was a prebuilt FPV drone and you need to repair it after smashing it into something at mach Jesus or 2. You bought a DJI, which is really a camera platform, and you want a drone that can fly at mach Jesus and do the cool aerobatics so that pulls you into the FPV genre where you buy a prebuilt or just build from scratch. Drones are just an example, there are plenty of other areas where people might get sucked into DIY electroncisbuilding. E-skateboard/bike/scooter modification and fixing, keyboard hobbyists, cosplay, 3d printing, home automation etc...

vladms 2y ago

All tech or all physical tech? For now software managed to somehow go in the opposite direction. In the '90s many / lots of operating systems / tools / libraries were paid / hard to access, today we have lots of (open-source) stuff for people to tinker with. Tinkering with physical stuff is also good and should be encouraged / supported, but let's also be careful not to loose the software tinkering (for example by not permitting in any shape rooting mobile devices).

coretx 2y ago
No, most people are stuffing everything into the application layer, or worse, a web/mobile app these days and don't know how to fix anything below it. I know many "programmers" who can neither configure a SME/Enterprise firewall or switch nor build their own PC or server from parts. Also, during the 90's everything was easy to find and access. Piracy was the norm and FOSS was booming.
- vladms 2y ago
  The field exploded though, both in terms of complexity and of number of people involved. I know many engineers that can do from compiler optimizations to web apps. I also know "programmers" that don't want to learn a new library because it stresses them. Lots of tech we currently rely on is built under FOSS model (thinking web stuff, mobile stuff, os stuff, data center stuff). Of course you must choose to use it, but I find nowadays using Linux daily on desktop as easy as using Windows or MacOS. 20 years ago you had to fight drivers, file formats, browser issues, media formats, lack of software (I mean we run many Windows video-games on Linux without issues, how cool is that?!) I did not check piracy lately because I find FOSS alternatives (or I can afford to buy some stuff).
  - coretx 2y ago
    The house of cards is build with far more than just libs. And everything you just mentioned came at a price.
- foobarchu 2y ago
  > I know many "programmers" who can neither configure a SME/Enterprise firewall or switch This is a very weird baseline to use for qualifying a programmer. Firewall configuration is completely irrelevant for most programmers and has been for decades. It is objectively not a programming task, it's just something that might get foisted upon a programmer if there is nobody else to do it.
  - chupy 2y ago
    Not op but how I understood it is that until recently the majority of programmers were geeks and liked to tinker and understand the systems they were writing and deploying code on. Not sure that this is the case now, nonetheless it can be a good thing that people are specializing and concerned just on the frameworks or design patterns.
const_cast 2y ago
[dead]
Nextgrid 2y ago
Even proprietary software in those times was accessible via piracy, and was generally tolerated/accepted as long as it wasn't for profit (in fact it benefited the software authors by allowing users to learn the usage of their software, for which they'd then push their future employers to buy).

HPsquared 2y ago

We (in the West, at least) live in an age of vendor lock-in. In the East, it's state lock-in but vendor freedom.

intrasight 2y ago
There are plenty of places where both are locked in
- HPsquared 2y ago
  I suppose, but they are free to pirate Disney movies or whatever. Maybe "freedom" wasn't the right word for lack of IP protection.

einpoklum 2y ago

> Everything from operating systems ... The subtle reference to systemd has not escaped our notice; and it is truly a shame.

yason 2y ago

Question is what domain/field is the next virgin frontier for hackers, unspoiled of commercial greed and integrated and locked down solutions, where you can still not only buy things but also own them, and rebuild from parts what you bought when it breaks down?

dghlsakjg 2y ago
There are all sorts of things like this, but one that springs to mind is drones, specifically FPV drones. You can build a very good drone from basically parts that runs on open firmware. The videos that you see coming out of Ukraine is clearly using flight control software that is basically the standard for non commercial drones. Nothing more cyberpunk than fighting fascists using open source software and commodity hardware.
- 9rx 2y ago
  What seems to be lacking is the path to accidental discovery that underlies these stories from the past. Is there a reasonable way people will find themselves building drones without being intentional about it?
  - saidinesh5 2y ago
    Not accidental, but government restrictions are the main reason people built their own drones here. Government banned import of drones here back then. Only way to fly and have fun was build your own. build them part by part. I have built them for dozens of non technical friends too. And then they themselves got into fixing them once they broke. Solder the wires. Get parts 3d printed etc..
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    The normal progression is that you had a commercially built one, and one of two things happened. 1. It was a prebuilt FPV drone and you need to repair it after smashing it into something at mach Jesus or 2. You bought a DJI, which is really a camera platform, and you want a drone that can fly at mach Jesus and do the cool aerobatics so that pulls you into the FPV genre where you buy a prebuilt or just build from scratch. Drones are just an example, there are plenty of other areas where people might get sucked into DIY electroncisbuilding. E-skateboard/bike/scooter modification and fixing, keyboard hobbyists, cosplay, 3d printing, home automation etc...