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Framework temporarily pausing some laptop sales in the US due to tariffs
- gnabgib 1y agoDupe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43616447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43616447 (50 points) This fractured landscape isn't better - same message on x: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43616389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43616389 (10 points)
- polarix 1y agoOne obvious benefit of this link and the bsky ones is that it is actually possible to read the comments on them, unlike the last one.
- bhouston 1y agoIf building hardware products wasn't hard enough. This could kill a lot of companies pretty quickly. If you have massive inventory in China or you've invested in a factory to build things at scale and now your US margins are underwater, I'm not sure what you do. Nintendo is facing the same thing. Nintendo had tried to avoid Trump's first term tariffs in 2019 by spending a ton of money moving Switch production to Vietnam only for Vietnam to get hit massive 46% tariffs this week: https://www.designdevelopmenttoday.com/industries/manufacturing/news/21077226/nintendo-moves-some-switch-production-to-vietnam https://www.designdevelopmenttoday.com/industries/manufactur...
- rayiner 1y ago> If you have massive inventory in China or you've invested in a factory to build things at scale and now your US margins are underwater, I'm not sure what you do. Don’t have massive production in China if you want to sell in the US. The writing has been on the wall for this for almost 20 years. Even Obama was talking about it in 2007-08.
- re-thc 1y ago> Don’t have massive production in China if you want to sell in the US. How does this help? Everyone has already tried shifting to Vietnam, India, etc only to be hit by tariffs anyway.
- rayiner 1y agoMaybe you should build your factories in America if you want to sell to Americans. IDK.
- re-thc 1y agoSame applies for social media, software, services, etc right? They’d build their software in their own countries instead? I’m not sure the US would be winning after crashing all the tech companies…
- trhway 1y agothe reciprocal tariffs against US services will hit mostly blue states (and "blue" people), thus achieving domestic political goals.
- pmyteh 1y agoMost trade war reciprocal tariffs are carefully targeted for political pressure rather than blanket. Under Republican presidents you might tariff whiskey (easily substitutable, made mostly in red states) and under Democratic ones Boeing or Facebook. Not clear that works at this scale, though.
- rayiner 1y agoThat's fine. AI will obsolete those jobs. And when it does we will want production in the US.
- ziml77 1y ago
- ninjin 1y agoI lack references for it. But to the best of my knowledge it is not just US tariffs on the PRC that is driving the migration of manufacturing for Japanese companies away from the PRC over the last decade or so, but also the increasingly tense relations between Japan, ROC, and South Korea and the PRC. It should be emphasised that it is of course gradual given the massive investments made by Japanese companies over many decades, but it is noticeable as a Japanese consumer.
- re-thc 1y ago> But to the best of my knowledge it is not just US tariffs on the PRC that is driving the migration of manufacturing for Japanese companies away from the PRC over the last decade or so Cost has increased as China itself domestically has matured (both as a consumer and the manufacturing side). Even China itself has moved some to e.g. Vietnam.
- VincentEvans 1y ago> US margins are underwater Increase price and pass cost of tariffs down to consumer
- theshrike79 1y agoEvery company should present their prices with the tariff separately Widget Pro 2: $1000 + Republican Tariff $460 Oh and don't personify Trump in these tariffs, always refer to them as the "Republican Administration Tariffs" so the rank and file senators can't hide behind "but it was Trump". They are enabling this crap.
- fnordian 1y agoThis would be consistent with US practice of displaying price always excluding tax.
- mrguyorama 1y agoThe US market is like half of Nintendo's money. Add to that, consumers were already price sensitive on Nintendo, they've never been a "good value" situation. They already raised the price quite a lot for the Switch 2 (compared to the first console) and people were already complaining about the prices BEFORE you had to slap an extra $200 per console and $20 per game for a "Americans didn't pay attention to 6th grade" tax. This is really going to hurt the console market, like, in general.
- downrightmike 1y agoNintendo clearly should have moved production the the USA and fully automated it. Thereby paying no tariffs and employing no americans except cleaning or repair staff.
- wongarsu 1y agoThey have their entire production in Taiwan, which probably feels like a good move right now. If they did final assembly in the US, US tariffs would be better, but selling outside the US would mean importing parts into the US and exporting computers outside, paying tradewar-level tariffs both ways. The way they are set up now they get hit harder on US imports but the rest of their customers aren't affected at all.
- vlovich123 1y agoWouldn’t it make sense then to spin up a separate final assembly within the US? Or do their sales not warrant that kind of investment?
- re-thc 1y ago> Wouldn’t it make sense then to spin up a separate final assembly within the US? Like it can just be done? > Or do their sales not warrant that kind of investment? It's not so simple. That's the equivalent of other countries thinking they can just spin up a "silicon valley" outside the US. Sales or not it doesn't work like that.
- theteapot 1y agoSilicon Valley == assembling laptops?
- re-thc 1y agoThe point is you can’t just shift and replicate so easily. Same applies whether it’s farms or even clouds. You downplay and make it sound easy. It’s all great in theory and to talk about it. Imagine if everyone moved assembly to the US. The demand would skyrocket salaries and other costs with supplying not keeping up and then you’d be paying even more than the tariffs itself.
- hedora 1y ago
- JLO64 1y agoI really hope this won’t affect International/European pricing for their laptops as I was planning on getting my GF (who lives in Poland) a Framework 12. Additionally, I was thinking about purchasing a Framework Desktop to use as a server for my business. (I’d like to use LLMs but due to the sensitive nature of my customer’s data I would strongly prefer doing so locally.) I guess I’d have to send it to my GF and then smuggle it into the US in my carry on.
- xvfLJfx9 1y agoIt shouldn't affect European customers. After all, framework is based in Taiwan and there are no tariffs for european customers in that scenario.
- nrp 1y agoWe're headquartered in the US, but have manufacturing in Taiwan. You are correct that there is no change in tariffs or pricing for our EU (and other non-US) customers.
- noisy_boy 1y agoThey had an assembly centre in Taiwan (or Thailand), it could have been easier shipping to many Asian markets they don't e.g. Singapore which has a affluent techy consumer base or Thailand/Malaysia etc.
- a012 1y agoThe logistics and management overheads will definitely cost similar or even higher than tariffs
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mixmastamyk 1y agoWhy not raise their prices?
- johnnyanmac 1y agoThey might be considering it. They may be playing the same cards Nintendo is where they are waiting out on whether the tarriffs are called off somehow before taking the option of a price hike.
- trymas 1y agoSlight rant, but raise how much? I wonder what is worse with the current USA administration? The policy itself (e.g. blanket tariffs) or unpredictability of their actions. Will tariffs for country X in a week will be higher or lower? Will they be paused/cancelled? Nobody knows - even Trump and his cronnies don’t know. Should I build a factory within USA, which will take 2 years to build and 10years to reach profitability in this political uncertainty?