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You can try to fight against it, but language is constantly evolving. Calling someone "nimrod" originally meant they were a great hunter and not the modern mean

You can try to fight against it, but language is constantly evolving. Calling someone "nimrod" originally meant they were a great hunter and not the modern meaning of fool

kazinator 2y ago
If it were not for those who assiduously compile dictionaries and other sources, and those who correct, you would not be able to understand the English from fifty years ago. Language evolution needs serious gatekeeping. It would ideally be best left to those who know what they are doing, not those who can't be bothered to look up a word. Nimrod as a pejorative probably arose among students who knew the name from history, and just started using it for fun. Kids in my eighth grade class, when we studied The Hobbit, started using "Bilbo" as a pejorative (referencing the character name Bilbo Baggins).
- wholinator2 2y ago
  This is a very interesting take to me. So you think language should be policed by a self selected cabal of experts? While i might agree for something like specific scientific findings being held tight by a small group of experts, i think language at large is a much, much larger thing. Mainly because literally everyone (okay 99%) use it pretty much all day every day. Very very few of the antivaxers are studying and using epidemiology and virology all day every day, but everyone talks. As such, language evolves local dialects and accents just due to the fact that there's far too many people to corral into one way of speaking. How do you feel about regional accents? Finally, i am very thankful for the experts who make dictionaries and find the origins of words i find interesting. However i _strongly_ doubt it would be impossible to understand the English my father spoke when he was a little under my age. Chiefly because, he's literally still alive and speaking? It sounds insane to assert that 50 years is enough to change language enough to become unintelligible unless i had a "1975 dictionary" in which i could look up all the slang and terminology. Sure, kids talk funny, jeepers man, it's like totally rad sometimes though. Far out dude. Did you have to look up what far out meant when you first heard it? Or did you understand it from the context and tone with which it was said. Good luck telling me I'm not intelligent enough to decide what I say bud, even better luck telling that to the kids. Get with it or be history my guy.
  - kazinator 2y ago
    The thing is, "jeepers", "ain't got nothin'" or "far out" are correct in ways that wrong usage of "begging the question" aren't. They're not based on a misunderstanding or anything. Jeepers is a way of avoiding saying Jesus, far out is just a shortening of something like far out of the ordinary, rad is an abbreviation of radical. None of these are criticized as words or phrases being used incorrectly. In the English speaking culture it's not uncommon for "begging the question" to be called out when it should be "raising the question". Until those voices completely stop it's questionable usage. It carries a blemish, unlike usage that is free of criticism. That's a descriptive stance. If I stand outside the English speaking culture and observe it, I see that certain malapropisms and whatnot are criticized by a good many of its members. They are native speakers and their opinions are data points that cannot be disregarded.

You can try to fight against it, but language is constantly evolving. Calling someone "nimrod" originally meant they were a great hunter and not the modern meaning of fool

kazinator 2y ago

If it were not for those who assiduously compile dictionaries and other sources, and those who correct, you would not be able to understand the English from fifty years ago. Language evolution needs serious gatekeeping. It would ideally be best left to those who know what they are doing, not those who can't be bothered to look up a word. Nimrod as a pejorative probably arose among students who knew the name from history, and just started using it for fun. Kids in my eighth grade class, when we studied The Hobbit, started using "Bilbo" as a pejorative (referencing the character name Bilbo Baggins).

wholinator2 2y ago
This is a very interesting take to me. So you think language should be policed by a self selected cabal of experts? While i might agree for something like specific scientific findings being held tight by a small group of experts, i think language at large is a much, much larger thing. Mainly because literally everyone (okay 99%) use it pretty much all day every day. Very very few of the antivaxers are studying and using epidemiology and virology all day every day, but everyone talks. As such, language evolves local dialects and accents just due to the fact that there's far too many people to corral into one way of speaking. How do you feel about regional accents? Finally, i am very thankful for the experts who make dictionaries and find the origins of words i find interesting. However i _strongly_ doubt it would be impossible to understand the English my father spoke when he was a little under my age. Chiefly because, he's literally still alive and speaking? It sounds insane to assert that 50 years is enough to change language enough to become unintelligible unless i had a "1975 dictionary" in which i could look up all the slang and terminology. Sure, kids talk funny, jeepers man, it's like totally rad sometimes though. Far out dude. Did you have to look up what far out meant when you first heard it? Or did you understand it from the context and tone with which it was said. Good luck telling me I'm not intelligent enough to decide what I say bud, even better luck telling that to the kids. Get with it or be history my guy.
- kazinator 2y ago
  The thing is, "jeepers", "ain't got nothin'" or "far out" are correct in ways that wrong usage of "begging the question" aren't. They're not based on a misunderstanding or anything. Jeepers is a way of avoiding saying Jesus, far out is just a shortening of something like far out of the ordinary, rad is an abbreviation of radical. None of these are criticized as words or phrases being used incorrectly. In the English speaking culture it's not uncommon for "begging the question" to be called out when it should be "raising the question". Until those voices completely stop it's questionable usage. It carries a blemish, unlike usage that is free of criticism. That's a descriptive stance. If I stand outside the English speaking culture and observe it, I see that certain malapropisms and whatnot are criticized by a good many of its members. They are native speakers and their opinions are data points that cannot be disregarded.