4 ms·

Microsoft fires engineers who protested during company's 50th anniversary

44 points by rfarley04 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bbqfog 2y ago
Those people were incredibly brave and I'm glad they stood up for what is right. Microsoft should be ashamed of itself, hopefully they feel real business pressure from BDS for their unethical support of genocide.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Those people were incredibly brave Maybe? It also comes across as petulant and self indulgent. I certainly wouldn't be thrilled for everyone's pet political issue to become the centrepiece at company celebrations.
  - bbqfog 2y ago
    No, it only comes across like that if you place no value on Arab lives.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > it only comes across like that if you place no value on Arab lives My pet war has been Ukraine. (And to a lesser degree, the civil war in Ethiopia.) If someone interrupted my CEO at our annual holiday party to go off on a tangent about either of those wars, I'd consider it silly and disrespectful. (If it were done in front of a client or the press, I'd ask that they be fired.)
      - bbqfog 2y ago
        There’s a difference between genocide and war. Also calling it your “pet” war shows you aren’t serious.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > a difference between genocide and war It's frankly unclear to me that there is. The definition of genocide seems to have expanded from its historical roots, and I haven't seen the pro-Palestinian faction in America make a credible claim that Israel is fighting this war materially differently from how every other war has been fought in the past decades by each of the U.S., Russia and China. I think the war should stop. But because war is horrible, not because it's in a special moral bucket. But! I haven't done extensive research on this. So I'm really not claiming to know one way or another, just that I've put the whole thing into the same bucket as the Uyghurs, Sudan, Eritrea, North Korea and the other horrific places on the planet that I don't have much control over. > calling it your “pet” war shows you aren’t serious I mean, yes. I'm also about as serious about it as these folks were. Namely, I haven't had much of a tangible effect on either war for years. It's not a pet war if you do something effective about it. (I did help with getting some...erm...stuff into Ukraine in 2023, but that's two years ago. I'll also dare to say that's a hell of a lot more I did for that war than someone mouthing off at a conference has done.)
        mackyspace 2y ago
        They sacrificed their jobs to protest genocide. You are nothing like them.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > They sacrificed their jobs to protest genocide. You are nothing like them. Right, the emphasis is on their sacrifice. Hence why I called it self indulgent. I had about as much effect on the wars I followed as they've had on this one.
        mackyspace 2y ago
- u_wot_pal 2y ago
  [flagged]
u_wot_pal 2y ago
[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  They're taking the stand against disruption. Someone interrupting leadership to decry Hamas or whatever would be similarly unwelcome in a workplace.
  - u_wot_pal 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Microsoft would never work with Hamas or any other terrorist organization Microsoft absolutely works with some of the aid organisations working in Palestine who someone may reasonably claim are supporting Hamas. The point is the content of the protest doesn't matter. The disruption does. A workplace doesn't work if everyone's standing on soapboxes.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
elmerfud 2y ago
Reading the article you can call this a protest, because yes it does fit under that definition because it's quite broad, but it doesn't fit the normal idea of what we would consider a protest. This was not people who decided not to attempt the 50th anniversary and then go outside and conduct a peaceable protest. You could equally use the word disruptors to describe what they did. As Microsoft said it seems that they work quite willful in their disruption. People seems to have forgotten how to be effective at making changes. They should have first gone and made their grievances known in a private way to the appropriate people. Get the attention of leadership in a way that is respectful and they in turn will be more willing to hear what you have to say. If that doesn't work you begin to broaden out your objections to get others involved and to make the issue more well-known. Seems people have forgotten that part abd skip those initial steps going straight to the disrupting ways. As if they are babies throwing a tantrum. I don't know if it's because they were never given discipline when they were younger and so throwing the tantrum is the way that they've learned gets them what they want. I think the protesters do have a valid point but I'm with Microsoft on this one. They didn't try and have their grievances handled in a productive way by going to those and making their case they started by just being disruptive jerks. Even if they have the most valid point in the world, the way they presented it should get them tossed out.
- bbqfog 2y ago
  That doesn’t work and these people have increased awareness of Microsoft’s role in the genocide. We’re literally talking about it now because if their sacrifice. Anyone clutching pearls over this was pro-genocide in the first place and not worth catering to.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > these people have increased awareness of Microsoft’s role in the genocide. We’re literally talking about it now because if their sacrifice Every Fortune 500 company does business in Israel, which means it directly or indirectly supports their military. If someone is just learning that I'm not sure how useful they are to anyone's cause.
rvz 2y ago
Most of big tech have defense contracts with the government and the government uses that technology for their own objectives. If you are working at the likes of Microsoft without that knowledge and disagree with the way those technologies are used by governments, maybe you should not be working for them at all, especially if you have "morals", "principles" or "ethics". There are no angels in big tech. You know that.
- mackyspace 2y ago
  They used their positions to put pressure on a mega corporation. A huge sacrifice and now there are multiple mainstream media stories about Microsoft supporting genocide. Their efforts aren't going to end the killing but they are going to increase pressure on all corporations.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > there are multiple mainstream media stories about Microsoft supporting genocide There are multiple stories about the protest. That, in turn, will animate both sides.
    - mackyspace 2y ago
      I'm going to go out on a limb and say the side bombing hospitals is fully animated. What is important is that more and more people realize the companies their giving their money to are using it to kill children.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > the side bombing hospitals is fully animated The Americans who lightly support Israel aren't bombing anything. They're the ones who get animated by giving the issue name recognition.
        mackyspace 2y ago
        Americans who lightly support Israel are baby boomers that won't be with us much longer.
archagon 2y ago
> The company also said that Abousssad could have raised concerns “confidentially with your manager, or with Global Employee Relations. Instead, you chose to intentionally disrupt the speech of Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman.” “You should have dumped your complaint in a black hole instead of speaking up.” Brave folks: they’ll no doubt see a ton of harassment and their future employment prospects (or even immigration status) may be affected. But if I found out that technology I was working on was being used to kill people, I might choose to flame out in the same manner. It’s hard to wash blood off your hands.
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  One of the most memorable Calvin and Hobbes comic strips happens to be about aliens that come to Earth to take all the water and air and ends with: "... A hatch opens up and the aliens said \ 'We're sorry to learn that you soon will be dead. \ But, though may find this slightly macabre, \ We prefer your extinction to the loss of our job.'" https://www.reddit.com/r/calvinandhobbes/comments/16cqzu6/we_prefer_your_extinction_to_the_loss_of_our_job/ https://www.reddit.com/r/calvinandhobbes/comments/16cqzu6/we... Bill Watterson had a good grasp of human nature.
sherdil2022 2y ago
This is not unexpected. Bravery is always met with such cowardly acts instead of introspection. But bravery and truth will prevail. Hold your heads high Ibtihal Aboussad and Vaniya Agrawal.
- OhioMan2943 2y ago
  I only wish there was a way I could reach out and say thanks, but I'm guessing they've scrubbed everything because they're likely to be harassed. Couldn't find anything online.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  Simping for Hamas is not bravery
  - sherdil2022 2y ago
    ... everybody’s fighting for their promised land... (As Guns N Roses once sang)
asdefghyk 2y ago
Why do these protestors never mention actions of ( US rated terrorist organization) Hamas in this situation? Apparently hiding in tunnels beneath hospitals and schools etc. Hiding behind and sacrificing Gazza people. Why they never mention Hamas has said wants to kill all from Israel etc ?
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  Because the Palestinians are being subjected to a campaign of mass murder at the hands of the Israeli Defense Forces, and whatever problems people have with Hamas, those are not nearly as important as the fact that Israel kills tens of thousands of Palestinians at will.

44 points by rfarley04 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Those people were incredibly brave and I'm glad they stood up for what is right. Microsoft should be ashamed of itself, hopefully they feel real business pressure from BDS for their unethical support of genocide.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Those people were incredibly brave Maybe? It also comes across as petulant and self indulgent. I certainly wouldn't be thrilled for everyone's pet political issue to become the centrepiece at company celebrations.
- bbqfog 2y ago
  No, it only comes across like that if you place no value on Arab lives.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > it only comes across like that if you place no value on Arab lives My pet war has been Ukraine. (And to a lesser degree, the civil war in Ethiopia.) If someone interrupted my CEO at our annual holiday party to go off on a tangent about either of those wars, I'd consider it silly and disrespectful. (If it were done in front of a client or the press, I'd ask that they be fired.)
    - bbqfog 2y ago
      There’s a difference between genocide and war. Also calling it your “pet” war shows you aren’t serious.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > a difference between genocide and war It's frankly unclear to me that there is. The definition of genocide seems to have expanded from its historical roots, and I haven't seen the pro-Palestinian faction in America make a credible claim that Israel is fighting this war materially differently from how every other war has been fought in the past decades by each of the U.S., Russia and China. I think the war should stop. But because war is horrible, not because it's in a special moral bucket. But! I haven't done extensive research on this. So I'm really not claiming to know one way or another, just that I've put the whole thing into the same bucket as the Uyghurs, Sudan, Eritrea, North Korea and the other horrific places on the planet that I don't have much control over. > calling it your “pet” war shows you aren’t serious I mean, yes. I'm also about as serious about it as these folks were. Namely, I haven't had much of a tangible effect on either war for years. It's not a pet war if you do something effective about it. (I did help with getting some...erm...stuff into Ukraine in 2023, but that's two years ago. I'll also dare to say that's a hell of a lot more I did for that war than someone mouthing off at a conference has done.)
        mackyspace 2y ago
        They sacrificed their jobs to protest genocide. You are nothing like them.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > They sacrificed their jobs to protest genocide. You are nothing like them. Right, the emphasis is on their sacrifice. Hence why I called it self indulgent. I had about as much effect on the wars I followed as they've had on this one.
        mackyspace 2y ago
u_wot_pal 2y ago
[flagged]

u_wot_pal 2y ago

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
They're taking the stand against disruption. Someone interrupting leadership to decry Hamas or whatever would be similarly unwelcome in a workplace.
- u_wot_pal 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Microsoft would never work with Hamas or any other terrorist organization Microsoft absolutely works with some of the aid organisations working in Palestine who someone may reasonably claim are supporting Hamas. The point is the content of the protest doesn't matter. The disruption does. A workplace doesn't work if everyone's standing on soapboxes.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

elmerfud 2y ago

Reading the article you can call this a protest, because yes it does fit under that definition because it's quite broad, but it doesn't fit the normal idea of what we would consider a protest. This was not people who decided not to attempt the 50th anniversary and then go outside and conduct a peaceable protest. You could equally use the word disruptors to describe what they did. As Microsoft said it seems that they work quite willful in their disruption. People seems to have forgotten how to be effective at making changes. They should have first gone and made their grievances known in a private way to the appropriate people. Get the attention of leadership in a way that is respectful and they in turn will be more willing to hear what you have to say. If that doesn't work you begin to broaden out your objections to get others involved and to make the issue more well-known. Seems people have forgotten that part abd skip those initial steps going straight to the disrupting ways. As if they are babies throwing a tantrum. I don't know if it's because they were never given discipline when they were younger and so throwing the tantrum is the way that they've learned gets them what they want. I think the protesters do have a valid point but I'm with Microsoft on this one. They didn't try and have their grievances handled in a productive way by going to those and making their case they started by just being disruptive jerks. Even if they have the most valid point in the world, the way they presented it should get them tossed out.

bbqfog 2y ago
That doesn’t work and these people have increased awareness of Microsoft’s role in the genocide. We’re literally talking about it now because if their sacrifice. Anyone clutching pearls over this was pro-genocide in the first place and not worth catering to.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > these people have increased awareness of Microsoft’s role in the genocide. We’re literally talking about it now because if their sacrifice Every Fortune 500 company does business in Israel, which means it directly or indirectly supports their military. If someone is just learning that I'm not sure how useful they are to anyone's cause.

rvz 2y ago

Most of big tech have defense contracts with the government and the government uses that technology for their own objectives. If you are working at the likes of Microsoft without that knowledge and disagree with the way those technologies are used by governments, maybe you should not be working for them at all, especially if you have "morals", "principles" or "ethics". There are no angels in big tech. You know that.

mackyspace 2y ago
They used their positions to put pressure on a mega corporation. A huge sacrifice and now there are multiple mainstream media stories about Microsoft supporting genocide. Their efforts aren't going to end the killing but they are going to increase pressure on all corporations.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > there are multiple mainstream media stories about Microsoft supporting genocide There are multiple stories about the protest. That, in turn, will animate both sides.
  - mackyspace 2y ago
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say the side bombing hospitals is fully animated. What is important is that more and more people realize the companies their giving their money to are using it to kill children.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > the side bombing hospitals is fully animated The Americans who lightly support Israel aren't bombing anything. They're the ones who get animated by giving the issue name recognition.
      - mackyspace 2y ago
        Americans who lightly support Israel are baby boomers that won't be with us much longer.

archagon 2y ago

> The company also said that Abousssad could have raised concerns “confidentially with your manager, or with Global Employee Relations. Instead, you chose to intentionally disrupt the speech of Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman.” “You should have dumped your complaint in a black hole instead of speaking up.” Brave folks: they’ll no doubt see a ton of harassment and their future employment prospects (or even immigration status) may be affected. But if I found out that technology I was working on was being used to kill people, I might choose to flame out in the same manner. It’s hard to wash blood off your hands.

ThrowawayR2 2y ago
One of the most memorable Calvin and Hobbes comic strips happens to be about aliens that come to Earth to take all the water and air and ends with: "... A hatch opens up and the aliens said \ 'We're sorry to learn that you soon will be dead. \ But, though may find this slightly macabre, \ We prefer your extinction to the loss of our job.'" https://www.reddit.com/r/calvinandhobbes/comments/16cqzu6/we_prefer_your_extinction_to_the_loss_of_our_job/ https://www.reddit.com/r/calvinandhobbes/comments/16cqzu6/we... Bill Watterson had a good grasp of human nature.

sherdil2022 2y ago

This is not unexpected. Bravery is always met with such cowardly acts instead of introspection. But bravery and truth will prevail. Hold your heads high Ibtihal Aboussad and Vaniya Agrawal.

OhioMan2943 2y ago
I only wish there was a way I could reach out and say thanks, but I'm guessing they've scrubbed everything because they're likely to be harassed. Couldn't find anything online.
TiredOfLife 2y ago
Simping for Hamas is not bravery
- sherdil2022 2y ago
  ... everybody’s fighting for their promised land... (As Guns N Roses once sang)

asdefghyk 2y ago

Why do these protestors never mention actions of ( US rated terrorist organization) Hamas in this situation? Apparently hiding in tunnels beneath hospitals and schools etc. Hiding behind and sacrificing Gazza people. Why they never mention Hamas has said wants to kill all from Israel etc ?

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
Because the Palestinians are being subjected to a campaign of mass murder at the hands of the Israeli Defense Forces, and whatever problems people have with Hamas, those are not nearly as important as the fact that Israel kills tens of thousands of Palestinians at will.