3 ms·

I'm going to need a shower after this but Gitmo, extraordinary rendition, and warrantless mass surveillance were still a thing under Obama, no? Still, not even

I'm going to need a shower after this but Gitmo, extraordinary rendition, and warrantless mass surveillance were still a thing under Obama, no? Still, not even comparable to what we're witnessing now.

blix 2y ago
Obama also created ICE as we know it today. And normalized drone strikes.
- sightbroke 2y ago
  How are drone strikes any different than a pilot, a warplane, and advanced precision bombs/missiles? Except they're cheaper to run and don't physically risk a pilot.
  - blix 2y ago
    The issue is not really with the difference in impact between drone attacks and other types of aerial attacks, but with the dramatic increase in scale, resulting from reduced cost and risk. It probably would have been more accurate to say something like "mass extra-judicial assasination/execution of individuals opaquely labelled as 'militants,' including US citizens, in foreign jurisdictions" instead of "drone strikes," but the latter is shorter and I thought would be understood as implying the former.
    - sightbroke 2y ago
      That appears to be an issue of policy not one of technology. Because they'd more than likely target those same individuals with less precise weapons if not for the given alternative.
      - blix 2y ago
        The technology enables the policy. If the cost and risk were higher, there would be fewer strikes.
        sightbroke 2y ago
        They invaded two countries simultaneously (one landlocked). Then used secret stealth helicopters to fly a hit squad into an allied nations territory for one particular individual. I don't think this is a fruitful debate but I doubt risk & cost are as much a determining factor as you'd like.
t-3 2y ago
Yep. Trump's taken it to a new level by targeting American citizens while they're physically in the USA, and while immigration courts were always a bad joke he's even skipping the kangaroo court and just shipping people off without even a pretense of due process or legal justification. Rather than an incremental step forward on the path of authoritarianism, this administration has taken a flying leap out the frog-boiling pot, straight into the inferno.
antifa 2y ago
teamwork makes the reamwork

blix 2y ago

Obama also created ICE as we know it today. And normalized drone strikes.

sightbroke 2y ago
How are drone strikes any different than a pilot, a warplane, and advanced precision bombs/missiles? Except they're cheaper to run and don't physically risk a pilot.
- blix 2y ago
  The issue is not really with the difference in impact between drone attacks and other types of aerial attacks, but with the dramatic increase in scale, resulting from reduced cost and risk. It probably would have been more accurate to say something like "mass extra-judicial assasination/execution of individuals opaquely labelled as 'militants,' including US citizens, in foreign jurisdictions" instead of "drone strikes," but the latter is shorter and I thought would be understood as implying the former.
  - sightbroke 2y ago
    That appears to be an issue of policy not one of technology. Because they'd more than likely target those same individuals with less precise weapons if not for the given alternative.
    - blix 2y ago
      The technology enables the policy. If the cost and risk were higher, there would be fewer strikes.
      - sightbroke 2y ago
        They invaded two countries simultaneously (one landlocked). Then used secret stealth helicopters to fly a hit squad into an allied nations territory for one particular individual. I don't think this is a fruitful debate but I doubt risk & cost are as much a determining factor as you'd like.

t-3 2y ago

Yep. Trump's taken it to a new level by targeting American citizens while they're physically in the USA, and while immigration courts were always a bad joke he's even skipping the kangaroo court and just shipping people off without even a pretense of due process or legal justification. Rather than an incremental step forward on the path of authoritarianism, this administration has taken a flying leap out the frog-boiling pot, straight into the inferno.

antifa 2y ago

teamwork makes the reamwork