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> From last time around: The people who kept pushing and took any job, anywhere turned out okay. This translated to a lot of people taking jobs below what they

> From last time around: The people who kept pushing and took any job, anywhere turned out okay. This translated to a lot of people taking jobs below what they expected to get or having to move when they didn’t want to, but it was ultimately temporary. I'm going to challenge this as you didn't give specific data to back it up. I read an article recently that did have data, and it made the argument that first jobs, and first salaries, tend to be remarkably "sticky". That is, if you are desperate for a job out of college so take one that causes you to be underemployed and underpaid, that doesn't just stick with you for your first job, but data showed that people were underemployed and underpaid for at least a decade after college. The advice in this article was to hold out as long as possible for a desirable job, which meant a ton of networking, taking internships if possible, and also possibly additional schooling. Apologies for not having the article on hand, but here's another one I found in 30 seconds of googling that makes the same argument, with research: https://www.highereddive.com/news/half-of-graduates-end-up-underemployed-what-does-that-mean-for-colleges/710836/#:~:text=Among%20their%20findings%3A%20Underemployment%20is,also%20varies%20by%20college%20major. https://www.highereddive.com/news/half-of-graduates-end-up-u...

hysan 2y ago
This sounds correct? I think I’m living evidence of it. The sad reality is that sometimes you can’t hold out long enough and you just gotta take what puts a roof over your head and food on the table. Everyone graduating now just got unlucky with when they were born. Edit: that said, I think the majority of what the parent wrote is good. Esp the part about negativity. That hits hard and is good to be aware of.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
well anecdotes are anecdotes. But tech tends to be much less sticky in this regard. And west coast much less sticky than east coast. My first job was 28/hr and the next roll almost tripled to 120k base 3 years later. It does partially mean hustling in some regards (be it on portfolio or leetcode), but when tech needs workers, they care a lot less about your piece of paper. But then again, we are definietly not in times of normalcy. If nothing changes quick we may all be losing our spending power.
- giantg2 2y ago
  Joke's on them - I didn't have much to spend in the first place.
taurath 2y ago
The stats bear this out, but you can usually pivot to something better, especially if you have the skillset and drive to continuously up your skillset and find parts of industry that are in demand. It’s the companies where you learn nothing where you stagnate. I doubt there’ll be a shortage of ML jobs in the next few years, unless somehow the AI industry completely collapses somehow.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  This makes a lot of sense to me. The stats basically say that "if you start out underemployed, you stay underemployed for a long time", but my guess is the causation isn't necessarily as it's implied (or, indeed, as I implied it in my first comment). That is, I think it's likely that a lot of people who start out unemployed are just comparatively less motivated, less aggressive, "go-with-the-flow"-type people. These folks do better when the market is good and worse when it's bad. But, as you put it, someone with a lot of drive and the skillset is not necessarily doomed to be held back for years if their first job sucks, as long as they set their sights on getting ahead quickly and don't let their stagnant environment rub off on them.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    > The advice in this article was to hold out as long as possible for a desirable job, which meant a ton of networking, taking internships if possible, and also possibly additional schooling. Emphasis on the next actions to take. Being in a graduating cohort affords you certain opportunities -- internships, career fairs, faculty-connected networking. Post-graduation, and especially post-college, people don't have these same opportunities. Fwiw, I'd lean very heavily into interning. Take an internship at the best company you can, that's likely to have solid financials and be hiring when you finish the internship. Intern -> hire is a ridiculous cheat code for your first "in industry" job. The employer decreases the risk of making a mistake on an unproven new grad. You get a job offer if you do enough solid work. Win/win. Worst case (no job offer), you should push really hard for a solid recommendation letter from your direct or second level manager.
    - 2y ago
giantg2 2y ago
I agree. I'm still feeling the effects of lowballing myself to get any job.
ioulaum 2y ago
Recessions aside, it may be that because they were forced to choose a bad job, and stuck there too long because of insecurity... Their trajectory was changed. Which may just mean that they need to stay focused on self-improvement and job hopping as possible.

hysan 2y ago

This sounds correct? I think I’m living evidence of it. The sad reality is that sometimes you can’t hold out long enough and you just gotta take what puts a roof over your head and food on the table. Everyone graduating now just got unlucky with when they were born. Edit: that said, I think the majority of what the parent wrote is good. Esp the part about negativity. That hits hard and is good to be aware of.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

well anecdotes are anecdotes. But tech tends to be much less sticky in this regard. And west coast much less sticky than east coast. My first job was 28/hr and the next roll almost tripled to 120k base 3 years later. It does partially mean hustling in some regards (be it on portfolio or leetcode), but when tech needs workers, they care a lot less about your piece of paper. But then again, we are definietly not in times of normalcy. If nothing changes quick we may all be losing our spending power.

giantg2 2y ago
Joke's on them - I didn't have much to spend in the first place.

taurath 2y ago

The stats bear this out, but you can usually pivot to something better, especially if you have the skillset and drive to continuously up your skillset and find parts of industry that are in demand. It’s the companies where you learn nothing where you stagnate. I doubt there’ll be a shortage of ML jobs in the next few years, unless somehow the AI industry completely collapses somehow.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
This makes a lot of sense to me. The stats basically say that "if you start out underemployed, you stay underemployed for a long time", but my guess is the causation isn't necessarily as it's implied (or, indeed, as I implied it in my first comment). That is, I think it's likely that a lot of people who start out unemployed are just comparatively less motivated, less aggressive, "go-with-the-flow"-type people. These folks do better when the market is good and worse when it's bad. But, as you put it, someone with a lot of drive and the skillset is not necessarily doomed to be held back for years if their first job sucks, as long as they set their sights on getting ahead quickly and don't let their stagnant environment rub off on them.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  > The advice in this article was to hold out as long as possible for a desirable job, which meant a ton of networking, taking internships if possible, and also possibly additional schooling. Emphasis on the next actions to take. Being in a graduating cohort affords you certain opportunities -- internships, career fairs, faculty-connected networking. Post-graduation, and especially post-college, people don't have these same opportunities. Fwiw, I'd lean very heavily into interning. Take an internship at the best company you can, that's likely to have solid financials and be hiring when you finish the internship. Intern -> hire is a ridiculous cheat code for your first "in industry" job. The employer decreases the risk of making a mistake on an unproven new grad. You get a job offer if you do enough solid work. Win/win. Worst case (no job offer), you should push really hard for a solid recommendation letter from your direct or second level manager.
  - 2y ago

giantg2 2y ago

I agree. I'm still feeling the effects of lowballing myself to get any job.

ioulaum 2y ago

Recessions aside, it may be that because they were forced to choose a bad job, and stuck there too long because of insecurity... Their trajectory was changed. Which may just mean that they need to stay focused on self-improvement and job hopping as possible.