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+1 to this. If I go look at social media the job market is ending. But if I look at the signals around me there's plenty of opportunities. Also consider taking

+1 to this. If I go look at social media the job market is ending. But if I look at the signals around me there's plenty of opportunities. Also consider taking something below (or even much below) expectations. It's much easier to work your way up with connections than it is to get in the door with no references.

laidoffamazon 2y ago
MIT students expect (not unfairly) to work at Jane Street/HRT/Jump/Citadel Securities/OpenAI/Anthropic and then "settle" for Google or Facebook. They're not going to work for Fidelity or Raytheon.
- fragmede 2y ago
  That's a bit of a charcacture of Course 6 at MIT. Course 10 is chemical engineering and plenty of them go into industry at all the major oil companies. Lots of MIT students go into aerospace and defense (Lincoln Labs is directly federally funded) and MIT holds a yearly Soldier Design Competition that also helps students go for SBIRs. Raytheon is a big hirer of course 2 (MechE) MIT grads.
  - quadragenarian 2y ago
    As someone who's worked at Lincoln Labs, I do wonder if the poster here has considered this. Although, it is worth noting that LL requires citizenship for many/most of its divisions.
  - FilosofumRex 2y ago
    That's only true of the ones on ROTC or similar military related programs, everyone else goes straight to Wall Street, big tech, or MBB or med school. At the annual Fall job fair, 80% of students queue up to less than 10% of employers. Most companies never show up because it's simply not worth the cost and time to try to recruit spoiled brats of MIT
    - vonneumannstan 2y ago
      Most MIT Mech E grads work at Boeing. Most Chem Es work at Exxon, Merck and Intel. Most Aero Astros are at Boeing. Etc. Etc. You just aren't accurate.
      - laidoffamazon 2y ago
        I find this specious - why would they do that when this is basically the composition of the MechE, AeroE, and ChemE (except no Intel for ChemE, we send our EEs to intel) at my public school undergrad? Why would they work with people that they perceive to be beneath them and have worked far less hard than them?
        vonneumannstan 2y ago
        >Why would they work with people that they perceive to be beneath them and have worked far less hard than them? Because you aren't actually modeling their thinking correctly?
        laidoffamazon 2y ago
        Perhaps I don't. I don't know why someone would expend 100x the effort and be labeled at minimum 10x the person by MIT admissions to end up at the same place that people with 1350 SATs from Auburn or 1450's from NC State or 1420 from Binghamton would go to after graduating MechE.
        mlhpdx 2y ago
        So I was accepted to MIT long, long ago and couldn’t afford to go and ended up at an (excellent) state school. If I’d gone to MIT I would be the same person right? Stereotypes don’t work, and never have — see people, not labels.
        laidoffamazon 2y ago
        It's about being able to get in, not going. You're a superior human to people like me despite going to a state school.
- carabiner 2y ago
  MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school, just like other college kids. My first job out of college was non-elite aircraft manufacturer... guy on my left was MIT, on my right was CalTech.
  - laidoffamazon 2y ago
    > MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school I seriously doubt that. This doesn't fit the class they come from. Maybe it would have in 1985 but not today.
    - FilosofumRex 2y ago
      I absolutely second that - MIT students of 70's, 80's and even early 90's were from different social class, demographics and personality types, than todays students. Today, MIT is nothing but a shadow of its better known academic cartel up the Mass ave. Those who hire MIT students know that and plan accordingly. The only reason to hire MIT students is for branding propaganda, you get nothing more from them.
- TYPE_FASTER 2y ago
  I get why they might have a certain expectation. It kinda depends on the job market. The guy in the cube next to me at Fidelity had a degree from MIT.
- fatnoah 2y ago
  As an MIT reject (technically waitlisted), my very first post-graduation job was at Raytheon and much later in life, I ended up at Facebook, where I managed a team that had several engineers that joined directly from MIT. While I can't speak to the entire MIT grad cohort, fFacebook was the first-choice for everyone in this particular group.
  - laidoffamazon 2y ago
    Facebook is still much higher status than Amazon or IBM or any other company the people from my undergrad join after college
johnnyanmac 2y ago
> But if I look at the signals around me there's plenty of opportunities. The signals around me in LA are pretty damn bad. several friends laid off, many others worried about layoffs, and a very weak pulse on the market in terms of roles. I still have part time work but who knows for how much longer at this rate? At this point I'm fine taking up anything that pays and doesn't potentially sent my 8 YO car into retirement even faster.
giantg2 2y ago
What signals are you seeing? The ones I've seen aren't good. I see some jobs in companies with shitty pay or shitty culture (my bar is not high). It dies look like the past 6 months have been better than the previous year or so. But overall, it looks pretty dim. I'm getting PIP'd soon. I am expecting that I will likely lose my job. If that happens, I'm expecting that I will end up as a Walmart greeter. As someone with a disability, I expect my application will go right in the trash if I answer yes or blank on the disability question. Or get fired if I mark no and then do need accommodations.
- nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
  Exactly this. I'm desperately looking for a new job. I hate my current job, the constant stress is taking a real toll, and I'm more tired than I've been ever before. I'm quite literally applying to all sorts of developer jobs that I'm well overqualified for, in any honest assessment, for a lot less than I make now. These roles are far from "premium" gigs. I've no diva expectations or hope at this point. The only places I even get rejection emails from are places I've had a referral. Things are bleak. I'm in a similar place wrt job "security." Current gig will end soon, one way or another, and the future doesn't look great.
- marcuskane2 2y ago
  > As someone with a disability, I expect my application will go right in the trash if I answer yes or blank on the disability question That's an interesting hypothesis. I've seen many people suggest just the opposite- pretending to have a mild disability when filling in the form so that they get the boost from companies which use recruiting software that prioritizes diversity and inclusiveness in candidate pool. Federal contractors are explicitly required to "take affirmative action to recruit, hire, promote and retain" people with disabilities, with a target of at least 7% of their employees be from that group. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/federal-contractor-requirements https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/fe...

laidoffamazon 2y ago

MIT students expect (not unfairly) to work at Jane Street/HRT/Jump/Citadel Securities/OpenAI/Anthropic and then "settle" for Google or Facebook. They're not going to work for Fidelity or Raytheon.

fragmede 2y ago
That's a bit of a charcacture of Course 6 at MIT. Course 10 is chemical engineering and plenty of them go into industry at all the major oil companies. Lots of MIT students go into aerospace and defense (Lincoln Labs is directly federally funded) and MIT holds a yearly Soldier Design Competition that also helps students go for SBIRs. Raytheon is a big hirer of course 2 (MechE) MIT grads.
- quadragenarian 2y ago
  As someone who's worked at Lincoln Labs, I do wonder if the poster here has considered this. Although, it is worth noting that LL requires citizenship for many/most of its divisions.
- FilosofumRex 2y ago
  That's only true of the ones on ROTC or similar military related programs, everyone else goes straight to Wall Street, big tech, or MBB or med school. At the annual Fall job fair, 80% of students queue up to less than 10% of employers. Most companies never show up because it's simply not worth the cost and time to try to recruit spoiled brats of MIT
  - vonneumannstan 2y ago
    Most MIT Mech E grads work at Boeing. Most Chem Es work at Exxon, Merck and Intel. Most Aero Astros are at Boeing. Etc. Etc. You just aren't accurate.
    - laidoffamazon 2y ago
      I find this specious - why would they do that when this is basically the composition of the MechE, AeroE, and ChemE (except no Intel for ChemE, we send our EEs to intel) at my public school undergrad? Why would they work with people that they perceive to be beneath them and have worked far less hard than them?
      - vonneumannstan 2y ago
        >Why would they work with people that they perceive to be beneath them and have worked far less hard than them? Because you aren't actually modeling their thinking correctly?
        laidoffamazon 2y ago
        Perhaps I don't. I don't know why someone would expend 100x the effort and be labeled at minimum 10x the person by MIT admissions to end up at the same place that people with 1350 SATs from Auburn or 1450's from NC State or 1420 from Binghamton would go to after graduating MechE.
        mlhpdx 2y ago
        So I was accepted to MIT long, long ago and couldn’t afford to go and ended up at an (excellent) state school. If I’d gone to MIT I would be the same person right? Stereotypes don’t work, and never have — see people, not labels.
        laidoffamazon 2y ago
        It's about being able to get in, not going. You're a superior human to people like me despite going to a state school.
carabiner 2y ago
MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school, just like other college kids. My first job out of college was non-elite aircraft manufacturer... guy on my left was MIT, on my right was CalTech.
- laidoffamazon 2y ago
  > MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school I seriously doubt that. This doesn't fit the class they come from. Maybe it would have in 1985 but not today.
  - FilosofumRex 2y ago
    I absolutely second that - MIT students of 70's, 80's and even early 90's were from different social class, demographics and personality types, than todays students. Today, MIT is nothing but a shadow of its better known academic cartel up the Mass ave. Those who hire MIT students know that and plan accordingly. The only reason to hire MIT students is for branding propaganda, you get nothing more from them.
TYPE_FASTER 2y ago
I get why they might have a certain expectation. It kinda depends on the job market. The guy in the cube next to me at Fidelity had a degree from MIT.
fatnoah 2y ago
As an MIT reject (technically waitlisted), my very first post-graduation job was at Raytheon and much later in life, I ended up at Facebook, where I managed a team that had several engineers that joined directly from MIT. While I can't speak to the entire MIT grad cohort, fFacebook was the first-choice for everyone in this particular group.
- laidoffamazon 2y ago
  Facebook is still much higher status than Amazon or IBM or any other company the people from my undergrad join after college

johnnyanmac 2y ago

> But if I look at the signals around me there's plenty of opportunities. The signals around me in LA are pretty damn bad. several friends laid off, many others worried about layoffs, and a very weak pulse on the market in terms of roles. I still have part time work but who knows for how much longer at this rate? At this point I'm fine taking up anything that pays and doesn't potentially sent my 8 YO car into retirement even faster.

giantg2 2y ago

What signals are you seeing? The ones I've seen aren't good. I see some jobs in companies with shitty pay or shitty culture (my bar is not high). It dies look like the past 6 months have been better than the previous year or so. But overall, it looks pretty dim. I'm getting PIP'd soon. I am expecting that I will likely lose my job. If that happens, I'm expecting that I will end up as a Walmart greeter. As someone with a disability, I expect my application will go right in the trash if I answer yes or blank on the disability question. Or get fired if I mark no and then do need accommodations.

nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
Exactly this. I'm desperately looking for a new job. I hate my current job, the constant stress is taking a real toll, and I'm more tired than I've been ever before. I'm quite literally applying to all sorts of developer jobs that I'm well overqualified for, in any honest assessment, for a lot less than I make now. These roles are far from "premium" gigs. I've no diva expectations or hope at this point. The only places I even get rejection emails from are places I've had a referral. Things are bleak. I'm in a similar place wrt job "security." Current gig will end soon, one way or another, and the future doesn't look great.
marcuskane2 2y ago
> As someone with a disability, I expect my application will go right in the trash if I answer yes or blank on the disability question That's an interesting hypothesis. I've seen many people suggest just the opposite- pretending to have a mild disability when filling in the form so that they get the boost from companies which use recruiting software that prioritizes diversity and inclusiveness in candidate pool. Federal contractors are explicitly required to "take affirmative action to recruit, hire, promote and retain" people with disabilities, with a target of at least 7% of their employees be from that group. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/federal-contractor-requirements https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/fe...