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If non-US citizens can be deported to El Salvador without due process for having a tattoo that an ICE officer deems to be "gang-related", you're immediately goi

If non-US citizens can be deported to El Salvador without due process for having a tattoo that an ICE officer deems to be "gang-related", you're immediately going to alienate most of the World's population from wanting to visit for any purpose. The lack of due process and the threat of extradition on a whim is one that feels less likely to happen to me as a caucasian with US citizens as family, but the impact of it would be life-changingly poor. I'd rather just not travel to the US, for tourism, family or business reasons. I'm not sure anything done in the last 3 months is much of a surprise to people who listened to his campaign talking points. It seems to me that people just thought he was a lying politician who lies, and this was just more lying. What's caught people out is that he's doing it all, and believes SCOTUS will never condemn or find illegal a thing he has done so due process is an abstract concept only, and others consider themselves immune for actions covered by Exec Order. It's all quite sad and worrying.

SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
When they'll deport innocent US citizens to El Salvador and then argue it's impossible to get them back I don't have any hope at all as a visitor. There's no way in hell I'm stepping foot in the United States right now.
- senordevnyc 2y ago
  To be fair, I don’t think we have any evidence of this happening to a citizen yet. I’m guessing we will soon though :(
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
    Good point, the man I was thinking of isn't a citizen. But even though the administration has admitted it was an error, they still aren't interested in seeing him returned.
  - mbs159 2y ago
    It has happened to permanent residents who have green cards, though. It's absolutely not the same as being a citizen, but it should be noted that most green card holders are eligible to become US citizens.
TehCorwiz 2y ago
What I find terrifying and everyone else should as well: If all that stands between you and indefinite detention is an accusation without due process that you're foreign then literally anyone including citizens can be black bagged.
- GrantMoyer 2y ago
  Don't forget the efforts to legally denounce citizen's citizenship. Right now, it's still unconstitutional, but the point is to test the waters.
yosito 2y ago
> believes SCOTUS will never condemn or find illegal a thing he has done Well, so far, that belief seems to be correct.
DeathArrow 2y ago
[flagged]
- PaulRobinson 2y ago
  German tourists are being detained by ICE. British tourists have been detained by ICE. Permanent residents of the US have been detained by ICE. Graduate students, scientists, tourists, you name it... detained for prolonged periods of time by ICE. Not all of them had tattoos, that's just an example, and that's the point - ICE want to use fear and uncertainty, because that's their M.O. Detainment is bad enough. It's only a matter of time before extradition to El Salvador is extended, but even if that didn't happen, what is happening right now is enough to put people off.
- Juliate 2y ago
  You (don't) think a lot of things. It's probably. So you think. What about some data, then? > I don't even think most world population has a tattoo. Tattoo is a booming business (around 9% growth in 2024). There are stats. Quoting https://www.ibisworld.com/united-states/industry/tattoo-artists/4404/ https://www.ibisworld.com/united-states/industry/tattoo-arti... "A Pew Research Study conducted in 2023 shows that 32.0% of Americans have tattoos. 41.0% of individuals under 30 have at least one tattoo, as do 46.0% of individuals aged between 30 and 49." That's not "most" in the sense, 50%+. It's still pretty significant.
kccqzy 2y ago
Don't even count on being a U.S. citizen making a difference. If they don't have due process for non-citizens, they just have to claim you are not a citizen to send you to El Salvador. Without due process you cannot prove you are a citizen.
DeathArrow 2y ago
[flagged]
- PaulRobinson 2y ago
  Before being so casually flippant, perhaps do some basic research on the facility people are being sent to, and the conditions they're being kept in.
  - saguntum 2y ago
    The facility is CECOT in case anyone needs a basic search term for this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center

SketchySeaBeast 2y ago

When they'll deport innocent US citizens to El Salvador and then argue it's impossible to get them back I don't have any hope at all as a visitor. There's no way in hell I'm stepping foot in the United States right now.

senordevnyc 2y ago
To be fair, I don’t think we have any evidence of this happening to a citizen yet. I’m guessing we will soon though :(
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
  Good point, the man I was thinking of isn't a citizen. But even though the administration has admitted it was an error, they still aren't interested in seeing him returned.
- mbs159 2y ago
  It has happened to permanent residents who have green cards, though. It's absolutely not the same as being a citizen, but it should be noted that most green card holders are eligible to become US citizens.

TehCorwiz 2y ago

What I find terrifying and everyone else should as well: If all that stands between you and indefinite detention is an accusation without due process that you're foreign then literally anyone including citizens can be black bagged.

GrantMoyer 2y ago
Don't forget the efforts to legally denounce citizen's citizenship. Right now, it's still unconstitutional, but the point is to test the waters.

yosito 2y ago

> believes SCOTUS will never condemn or find illegal a thing he has done Well, so far, that belief seems to be correct.

DeathArrow 2y ago

[flagged]

PaulRobinson 2y ago
German tourists are being detained by ICE. British tourists have been detained by ICE. Permanent residents of the US have been detained by ICE. Graduate students, scientists, tourists, you name it... detained for prolonged periods of time by ICE. Not all of them had tattoos, that's just an example, and that's the point - ICE want to use fear and uncertainty, because that's their M.O. Detainment is bad enough. It's only a matter of time before extradition to El Salvador is extended, but even if that didn't happen, what is happening right now is enough to put people off.
Juliate 2y ago
You (don't) think a lot of things. It's probably. So you think. What about some data, then? > I don't even think most world population has a tattoo. Tattoo is a booming business (around 9% growth in 2024). There are stats. Quoting https://www.ibisworld.com/united-states/industry/tattoo-artists/4404/ https://www.ibisworld.com/united-states/industry/tattoo-arti... "A Pew Research Study conducted in 2023 shows that 32.0% of Americans have tattoos. 41.0% of individuals under 30 have at least one tattoo, as do 46.0% of individuals aged between 30 and 49." That's not "most" in the sense, 50%+. It's still pretty significant.

kccqzy 2y ago

Don't even count on being a U.S. citizen making a difference. If they don't have due process for non-citizens, they just have to claim you are not a citizen to send you to El Salvador. Without due process you cannot prove you are a citizen.

DeathArrow 2y ago

[flagged]

PaulRobinson 2y ago
Before being so casually flippant, perhaps do some basic research on the facility people are being sent to, and the conditions they're being kept in.
- saguntum 2y ago
  The facility is CECOT in case anyone needs a basic search term for this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center