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I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internat

I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. I'd be interested in alternate viewpoints since I may be in a bleeding-heart, empathetic, progressive, consequence-considering news bubble. My reasoning is that a family member who lives in the US said that they feel protected / insulated because they're in a deep blue state. I don't feel this is representative of reality, or at least they should be more alarmed than they sounded.

potato3732842 2y ago
>I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. Exactly. Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very much the CNN recap and not the Fox one. "Tourists locked up, school children shot, government defunded, California on fire, tune in at 11 for more". The fact that ~half the country doesn't think ICE should be locking up tourists without good reason and the other ~half doesn't think ICE should be locking up anyone gets skipped. Edit: Just to head off the nitpickers, by "good reason" I mean stuff that border guards of any nation would lock anyone up for if they found, regardless of visa type, status or nation or origin.
- bondarchuk 2y ago
  When you are in stuck in a border control jail for 2 weeks it does not particularly matter who does or does not think you should be there.
  - ornornor 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - poisonarena 2y ago
      [flagged]
- ABS 2y ago
  assuming your point is correct about what almost the entire country thinks about ICE locking up tourists (and I don't think it is) it's irrelevant: ICE does it anyway and that's all I as a potential turist care about
  - footy 2y ago
    exactly. As a Canadian I don't really care that half or more of the country thinks that ICE should not be locking up random Canadians or that the annexation threats aren't real or that the tariffs are a negotiating tactic. It is not relevant to my life how they feel if any of these things affect me.
- badgersnake 2y ago
  There’s no reason to lock tourists up. If you don’t want them put them on the first flight back. Locking people up is expensive and if they’re willing to leave anyway, totally pointless. You would think that a country with a whole department devoted to government efficiency could work that out.
  - ta1243 2y ago
    10 nights in an ICE jail is very lucrative to the company that runs that jail. Can be funded by the taxes the poorest in America pay.
    - exe34 2y ago
      I'm surprised they don't require the victim or their family to pay to have them released. Make Piracy/Kidnapping Great Again.
      - rqtwteye 2y ago
        There are places where you get charged something like $60 for a day in prison.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        damn, 1800 a month? What am I doing paying rent? /s
  - ornornor 2y ago
    Aren’t a lot of jails private and for profit? Just bill the tourist for the stay and detain until they pay in full (accruing even more debt in the meantime). It makes perfect business sense which is all that seems to matter to the US nowadays.
    - potato3732842 2y ago
      >Aren’t a lot of jails private and for profit? No, it's a small-ish minority of them. Most are government owned and run. That said, there's a huge incentive to piss away money holding people so you can justify your budget and use poor conditions to justify increases in budget. And on top of that the contractors that supply government jails are pretty evil too. So it's really a distinction without a difference at the end of the day, it's all a pretty rotten system.
- shmel 2y ago
  Do their opinions matter at all? If you do get locked up, will you find this information helpful?
- ulfw 2y ago
  What are you trying to argue though? I am a bit at a loss to follow. Be so kind and explain. You want foreign readers to read news about how half of the US wants you, the foreign tourist, be locked up in a jail cell? The news is already out there. Everyone assumes it's so wanted, because well... it does actually happen
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    I'm not arguing anything. I'm agreeing. Why do I have to be arguing? "ICE goes crazy looking for crimes, hapless tourists caught up in the boondoggle" and "ICE detaining tourists for no good reason" Are both 100% true ways to headline the same events. Which framing is Europe getting? This is something to watch out for on all issues, not just immigration/foreign affairs.
    - bondarchuk 2y ago
      But what does it matter? "Hapless tourists caught up in the boondoggle" is just as bad (and maybe worse) from the POV of said tourists. If you're worried, though, that "ICE goes crazy" is an underrepresented perspective in the rest of the world, I can reassure you on that count...
    - footy 2y ago
      both framings are equally bad for the potential tourist.
    - ulfw 2y ago
      As a potential tourist to the US of A I could not possibly care less if I am detained due to a boondoggle or for no good reason. Both make me not want to ever go there again. So ...?
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  For everyone outside the US, the fact that half the country doesn't think ICE should be locking up tourists without good reason is irrelevant since that half isn't barricading detention centers and tearing prison gates open with their cars. ... not that these things would make it safer to travel to the US. In the short run. The status quo of power is that it is less safe to be a foreigner in the US than it has been in a long time. Possibly at any point in time the US wasn't actively at war with another nation.
- ajross 2y ago
  > ~half the country doesn't think ICE should be locking up tourists without good reason and the other ~half doesn't think ICE should be locking up anyone That is not remotely a good faith representation of the controversy.
  - pearlsontheroad 2y ago
    I've lived my entire adult life in the USA (international student -> non-immigrant temp worker -> resident -> citizen). People are delusional if they think the USA is split in half about immigration. The anti-immigrant sentiment among whites, blacks and some naturalized immigrants (like Cubans in FL) is truly the only thing that crosses political boundaries here.
- mannykannot 2y ago
  I doubt that seeing the Fox spin on US events would persuade many people that the US is currently a place of rationality and the rule of law.
  - the_af 2y ago
    Plus it's false that the rest of the world doesn't get the Fox spin along with the CNN spin. We get both.
    - phr4ts 2y ago
      Really? In my country, CNN is Coca cola and Fox is Dr. Pepper
      - neogodless 2y ago
        I do not understand this analogy! For me, Coke tastes like acid, and Dr. Pepper is sweet and spicy. But... uh... that doesn't translate well when applied to sources for "news".
      - the_af 2y ago
        Like the sibling comment, I don't understand the analogy. Also, I'd like to emphasize what someone said elsewhere in this comments section: the rest of the world doesn't see the US through the "CNN vs Fox" lens, that's almost exclusively an American phenomenon.
        csa 2y ago
        > Like the sibling comment, I don't understand the analogy. Ubiquitous (distribution) versus relatively limited (distribution).
  - DeathArrow 2y ago
    Doesn't the crime rate go down when Republicans hold the power? I think the crime rate is a major concern for every tourist. Doesn't Florida have a much lower crime rate than California? As a tourist, I rather visit Florida than California.
- palata 2y ago
  When the President of the United States threatens to invade ex-allies, I don't think that the threatened people give a shit about what the American people think about it. The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? Of course most Americans don't want random people detained. But still, this is happening in the US. And one thing that I believe is absolutely clear outside the US (whether it's true or not), is that most Americans are perfectly fine with "America First". Americans don't really care about the impact of Trump on the rest of the world; they care about the impact on themselves. Boycotting US products is a way to impact the American people, in the hope that the American people will eventually realise that what's best for them is also better for the others. Something that I found interesting: when Canadians started booing the US anthem in NHL games, Americans started booing the Canadian anthem. Why? Canada didn't do anything to the US. Does it sound that most Americans are against what's happening, when they defend it? There is this kind of American patriotism where people seem to be like "Yes, my government, is bullying you, but I won't admit it and I will fight against you if you say it. But I'm a good guy, I don't want my government to bully you. I'll just support it because it's my country". So yeah... pretty sure that it feels a lot different from the outside than from the inside.
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    > There is this kind of American patriotism Doesn‘t look much different from Russian, Israeli or Chinese patriotism. When outsiders criticize your tribe for doing bad things, many are standing in support of the tribe, not the values, and they are the most visible.
    - DeathArrow 2y ago
      Isn't it natural to support your people?
      - palata 2y ago
        Probably, but if your dad starts beating a kid in the street, I hope you'll do something about it. Also for your dad's sake and for your family reputation.
- soco 2y ago
  Let's face it, this is the "regular" newsflash we are getting everywhere: one part world catastrophes and one part local news. Or almost. And as the US is a big player in the world, or used to be at least, most eyes are on your catastrophes.
- sofixa 2y ago
  > Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very much the CNN recap and not the Fox one. No, Americans generally don't understand that the rest of the world, and the rest of the world's news, genuinely don't see things in this dual "us vs them", "CNN vs Fox", "Democrats vs Republicans" lens. When Trump does shit, media from around the world say what he did and why it's bad. When Biden or Obama before him did shit, media from around the world say what he did and why it's bad. Fox are genuinely deranged hypocrites who themselves claimed in court that nobody sane would believe them. Very few of the world's media reflect their point of views, because they are absurd. CNN is all over the place, so sometimes their point of view matches with e.g. BBC or Guardian or Süddeutsche Zeitung, sometimes it doesn't.
- jajko 2y ago
  Nobody watches or cares about some CNN, that stuff, or Fox and your bipolar political stuff US very much internal US matter. We care about outwardish things, trump mood swings and so on.
- coliveira 2y ago
  Feelings of Americans don't matter much in this equation. Most are delusional about what is happening in one way or another. People from other countries will not get even close to the US while there is a chance they will be jailed and sent to a lawless detention center for looking different.
  - DeathArrow 2y ago
    >People from other countries will not get even close to the US while there is a chance they will be jailed and sent to a lawless detention center for looking different. I am from Europe. I don't think I look different than an American.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  MSNBC, CNN, folks on instagram and YouTube, currently there is still quite a few sources free of dictorship style media. Still wishing citzens manage to get control of the country back, before the administration adopts even stronger control mechanisms.
- Fauntleroy 2y ago
  Suggesting that giving the rest of the world the "fox news viewpoint" would somehow improve foreigner's views or knowledge of America is spurious at best, and delusional at worst.
- account42 2y ago
  Then maybe Europeans should consume more alternative media instead of just state propaganda.
  - Juliate 2y ago
    More alternative like... Fox News which is officially (and self endorsed) an _entertainment_ channel? As opposed to... a news organisation/channel?
ta1243 2y ago
The bigger debate I see is if it's worse for the US or worse for the rest of the world. The consensus is it's awful for everyone, apart from a few environmentalists that are looking forward to the reduce carbon emissions from a great depression. I think the consensus is that if the rest of the world grows a spine it will emerge far stronger and the US a weaker state to before - akin to change the British Empire post ww2 compared with before, probably with the same glee they saw the British Empire falling.
- BLKNSLVR 2y ago
  This is off topic, but I've actually found comfort in how it has galvanised Europe. What worries me is which side the US (government, not people) would choose to support if EU states send troops to Ukraine's front lines, which would absolutely instigate a Russian response. (Trump wouldn't like that the little EU states are messing with his negotiations for the shrinking and pillaging of Ukraine, and Trump is, if nothing else, vengeful).
  - jajko 2y ago
    A defining pillar of a society is either a very strong common goal or enemy. US supplanted both, so yeah actually thank you for that. My 2 cents - wanted to take family on a trip to western US, parks and maybe SF, not in fucking hell now or in next 2 decades. I know its just some tiny drop in the bucket, but that ~10k spent locally in those few weeks will be spent elsewhere and if enough people will do the same (which they will do), tourism will suffer a bit. Maybe US folks will go there more, who knows (US tourists are still very welcome in Europe, we just hate the people you vote in because they clearly hate us).
    - DeathArrow 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - jajko 2y ago
        Looking at your comment history, it checks out. > What's wrong with El Salvador? Isn't it a diverse country with wonderful people? You are also incorrect in your last 2 sentences but no point breaking it down, that much I've learned in past few years with various versions of maga supporters (yes, we have them in Europe too, they usually vote ultra right pro russian and/or obviously corrupt populists).
threeseed 2y ago
> whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" Of course it is. Because the chance of a global recession is about 50% now. Which means millions of people are going to lose their jobs, businesses will collapse, governments will go into deficit and cut services and there will be needless suffering only a few years after COVID.
- pjc50 2y ago
  I think the recession is already happening, if you look at the markets. The US has suddenly imposed huge sanctions on itself.
verelo 2y ago
Something i like doing from time to time is picking a foreign movie, ie Russian (you know, the standard bad guys) and just pretend it’s a US based movie. Or the reverse, watch something based in the US and turn on Russian dubbing. It’s funny how quickly you realize the bad guys are both sides. I say this because often when trying to interpret media i feel the language and accent of the presenter influences me. “They sound like me” therefore i start with an assumption they think like me. Rarely anyone in fox thinks like me.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Odd media literacy take? Yes of course the propaganda is supposed to influence you, and of course if you're actually trying to analyse media you shouldn't let it. (I retrospectively put the high point of recent West-China relations some time around the release of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin , which is an obvious propaganda war film with Americans on the "enemy" side .. that was shown in Western cinemas. Certainly in the UK, I think in America as well. Very odd. BTW, MOSFILM is on Youtube if you need some classic Russian cinema)
Arubis 2y ago
Your family member has reason to feel that way. They're in a bubble. Bubbles are great till they pop.
DeathArrow 2y ago
[flagged]
- pjc50 2y ago
  That's not a plural, it's the standard English pronoun for a person whose gender isn't specified.
  - DeathArrow 2y ago
    That's interesting, because when I learned English in school the pronoun for "a person whose gender isn't specified" was he.
    - pjc50 2y ago
      Must have been a long time ago, because efforts to remove "he" as the default gender have been ongoing for years (80s?) and everybody has more or less settled on they rather than the awkward he/she.
      - bmn__ 2y ago
        You are in a bubble if you think that "everybody has […] settled on they". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21179524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21179524
        pjc50 2y ago
        > All natural languages I know are gendered the same way English is. Finnish has always been gender-neutral: https://finland.fi/han/article/ https://finland.fi/han/article/ Chinese and Japanese also do not have grammatical gender. Chinese imported gendered pronouns about a century ago for ease of translating Western gendered languages, but both languages tend to either refer to people by name or have no word at all and infer from sentence structure.
      - DeathArrow 2y ago

potato3732842 2y ago

>I think the news feeds within the US may be approximately equal in their delivery of "this is good change" versus "this is catastrophic change", whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" with minor pockets of intolerance apologia. Exactly. Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very much the CNN recap and not the Fox one. "Tourists locked up, school children shot, government defunded, California on fire, tune in at 11 for more". The fact that ~half the country doesn't think ICE should be locking up tourists without good reason and the other ~half doesn't think ICE should be locking up anyone gets skipped. Edit: Just to head off the nitpickers, by "good reason" I mean stuff that border guards of any nation would lock anyone up for if they found, regardless of visa type, status or nation or origin.

bondarchuk 2y ago
When you are in stuck in a border control jail for 2 weeks it does not particularly matter who does or does not think you should be there.
- ornornor 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - poisonarena 2y ago
    [flagged]
ABS 2y ago
assuming your point is correct about what almost the entire country thinks about ICE locking up tourists (and I don't think it is) it's irrelevant: ICE does it anyway and that's all I as a potential turist care about
- footy 2y ago
  exactly. As a Canadian I don't really care that half or more of the country thinks that ICE should not be locking up random Canadians or that the annexation threats aren't real or that the tariffs are a negotiating tactic. It is not relevant to my life how they feel if any of these things affect me.
badgersnake 2y ago
There’s no reason to lock tourists up. If you don’t want them put them on the first flight back. Locking people up is expensive and if they’re willing to leave anyway, totally pointless. You would think that a country with a whole department devoted to government efficiency could work that out.
- ta1243 2y ago
  10 nights in an ICE jail is very lucrative to the company that runs that jail. Can be funded by the taxes the poorest in America pay.
  - exe34 2y ago
    I'm surprised they don't require the victim or their family to pay to have them released. Make Piracy/Kidnapping Great Again.
    - rqtwteye 2y ago
      There are places where you get charged something like $60 for a day in prison.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        damn, 1800 a month? What am I doing paying rent? /s
- ornornor 2y ago
  Aren’t a lot of jails private and for profit? Just bill the tourist for the stay and detain until they pay in full (accruing even more debt in the meantime). It makes perfect business sense which is all that seems to matter to the US nowadays.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    >Aren’t a lot of jails private and for profit? No, it's a small-ish minority of them. Most are government owned and run. That said, there's a huge incentive to piss away money holding people so you can justify your budget and use poor conditions to justify increases in budget. And on top of that the contractors that supply government jails are pretty evil too. So it's really a distinction without a difference at the end of the day, it's all a pretty rotten system.
shmel 2y ago
Do their opinions matter at all? If you do get locked up, will you find this information helpful?
ulfw 2y ago
What are you trying to argue though? I am a bit at a loss to follow. Be so kind and explain. You want foreign readers to read news about how half of the US wants you, the foreign tourist, be locked up in a jail cell? The news is already out there. Everyone assumes it's so wanted, because well... it does actually happen
- potato3732842 2y ago
  I'm not arguing anything. I'm agreeing. Why do I have to be arguing? "ICE goes crazy looking for crimes, hapless tourists caught up in the boondoggle" and "ICE detaining tourists for no good reason" Are both 100% true ways to headline the same events. Which framing is Europe getting? This is something to watch out for on all issues, not just immigration/foreign affairs.
  - bondarchuk 2y ago
    But what does it matter? "Hapless tourists caught up in the boondoggle" is just as bad (and maybe worse) from the POV of said tourists. If you're worried, though, that "ICE goes crazy" is an underrepresented perspective in the rest of the world, I can reassure you on that count...
  - footy 2y ago
    both framings are equally bad for the potential tourist.
  - ulfw 2y ago
    As a potential tourist to the US of A I could not possibly care less if I am detained due to a boondoggle or for no good reason. Both make me not want to ever go there again. So ...?
shadowgovt 2y ago
For everyone outside the US, the fact that half the country doesn't think ICE should be locking up tourists without good reason is irrelevant since that half isn't barricading detention centers and tearing prison gates open with their cars. ... not that these things would make it safer to travel to the US. In the short run. The status quo of power is that it is less safe to be a foreigner in the US than it has been in a long time. Possibly at any point in time the US wasn't actively at war with another nation.
ajross 2y ago
> ~half the country doesn't think ICE should be locking up tourists without good reason and the other ~half doesn't think ICE should be locking up anyone That is not remotely a good faith representation of the controversy.
- pearlsontheroad 2y ago
  I've lived my entire adult life in the USA (international student -> non-immigrant temp worker -> resident -> citizen). People are delusional if they think the USA is split in half about immigration. The anti-immigrant sentiment among whites, blacks and some naturalized immigrants (like Cubans in FL) is truly the only thing that crosses political boundaries here.
mannykannot 2y ago
I doubt that seeing the Fox spin on US events would persuade many people that the US is currently a place of rationality and the rule of law.
- the_af 2y ago
  Plus it's false that the rest of the world doesn't get the Fox spin along with the CNN spin. We get both.
  - phr4ts 2y ago
    Really? In my country, CNN is Coca cola and Fox is Dr. Pepper
    - neogodless 2y ago
      I do not understand this analogy! For me, Coke tastes like acid, and Dr. Pepper is sweet and spicy. But... uh... that doesn't translate well when applied to sources for "news".
    - the_af 2y ago
      Like the sibling comment, I don't understand the analogy. Also, I'd like to emphasize what someone said elsewhere in this comments section: the rest of the world doesn't see the US through the "CNN vs Fox" lens, that's almost exclusively an American phenomenon.
      - csa 2y ago
        > Like the sibling comment, I don't understand the analogy. Ubiquitous (distribution) versus relatively limited (distribution).
- DeathArrow 2y ago
  Doesn't the crime rate go down when Republicans hold the power? I think the crime rate is a major concern for every tourist. Doesn't Florida have a much lower crime rate than California? As a tourist, I rather visit Florida than California.
palata 2y ago
When the President of the United States threatens to invade ex-allies, I don't think that the threatened people give a shit about what the American people think about it. The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? Of course most Americans don't want random people detained. But still, this is happening in the US. And one thing that I believe is absolutely clear outside the US (whether it's true or not), is that most Americans are perfectly fine with "America First". Americans don't really care about the impact of Trump on the rest of the world; they care about the impact on themselves. Boycotting US products is a way to impact the American people, in the hope that the American people will eventually realise that what's best for them is also better for the others. Something that I found interesting: when Canadians started booing the US anthem in NHL games, Americans started booing the Canadian anthem. Why? Canada didn't do anything to the US. Does it sound that most Americans are against what's happening, when they defend it? There is this kind of American patriotism where people seem to be like "Yes, my government, is bullying you, but I won't admit it and I will fight against you if you say it. But I'm a good guy, I don't want my government to bully you. I'll just support it because it's my country". So yeah... pretty sure that it feels a lot different from the outside than from the inside.
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  > There is this kind of American patriotism Doesn‘t look much different from Russian, Israeli or Chinese patriotism. When outsiders criticize your tribe for doing bad things, many are standing in support of the tribe, not the values, and they are the most visible.
  - DeathArrow 2y ago
    Isn't it natural to support your people?
    - palata 2y ago
      Probably, but if your dad starts beating a kid in the street, I hope you'll do something about it. Also for your dad's sake and for your family reputation.
soco 2y ago
Let's face it, this is the "regular" newsflash we are getting everywhere: one part world catastrophes and one part local news. Or almost. And as the US is a big player in the world, or used to be at least, most eyes are on your catastrophes.
sofixa 2y ago
> Americans generally don't understand the degree to which the rest of the world gets the CNN 5min recap of what's going on in the US, and it's very much the CNN recap and not the Fox one. No, Americans generally don't understand that the rest of the world, and the rest of the world's news, genuinely don't see things in this dual "us vs them", "CNN vs Fox", "Democrats vs Republicans" lens. When Trump does shit, media from around the world say what he did and why it's bad. When Biden or Obama before him did shit, media from around the world say what he did and why it's bad. Fox are genuinely deranged hypocrites who themselves claimed in court that nobody sane would believe them. Very few of the world's media reflect their point of views, because they are absurd. CNN is all over the place, so sometimes their point of view matches with e.g. BBC or Guardian or Süddeutsche Zeitung, sometimes it doesn't.
jajko 2y ago
Nobody watches or cares about some CNN, that stuff, or Fox and your bipolar political stuff US very much internal US matter. We care about outwardish things, trump mood swings and so on.
coliveira 2y ago
Feelings of Americans don't matter much in this equation. Most are delusional about what is happening in one way or another. People from other countries will not get even close to the US while there is a chance they will be jailed and sent to a lawless detention center for looking different.
- DeathArrow 2y ago
  >People from other countries will not get even close to the US while there is a chance they will be jailed and sent to a lawless detention center for looking different. I am from Europe. I don't think I look different than an American.
pjmlp 2y ago
MSNBC, CNN, folks on instagram and YouTube, currently there is still quite a few sources free of dictorship style media. Still wishing citzens manage to get control of the country back, before the administration adopts even stronger control mechanisms.
Fauntleroy 2y ago
Suggesting that giving the rest of the world the "fox news viewpoint" would somehow improve foreigner's views or knowledge of America is spurious at best, and delusional at worst.
account42 2y ago
Then maybe Europeans should consume more alternative media instead of just state propaganda.
- Juliate 2y ago
  More alternative like... Fox News which is officially (and self endorsed) an _entertainment_ channel? As opposed to... a news organisation/channel?

ta1243 2y ago

The bigger debate I see is if it's worse for the US or worse for the rest of the world. The consensus is it's awful for everyone, apart from a few environmentalists that are looking forward to the reduce carbon emissions from a great depression. I think the consensus is that if the rest of the world grows a spine it will emerge far stronger and the US a weaker state to before - akin to change the British Empire post ww2 compared with before, probably with the same glee they saw the British Empire falling.

BLKNSLVR 2y ago
This is off topic, but I've actually found comfort in how it has galvanised Europe. What worries me is which side the US (government, not people) would choose to support if EU states send troops to Ukraine's front lines, which would absolutely instigate a Russian response. (Trump wouldn't like that the little EU states are messing with his negotiations for the shrinking and pillaging of Ukraine, and Trump is, if nothing else, vengeful).
- jajko 2y ago
  A defining pillar of a society is either a very strong common goal or enemy. US supplanted both, so yeah actually thank you for that. My 2 cents - wanted to take family on a trip to western US, parks and maybe SF, not in fucking hell now or in next 2 decades. I know its just some tiny drop in the bucket, but that ~10k spent locally in those few weeks will be spent elsewhere and if enough people will do the same (which they will do), tourism will suffer a bit. Maybe US folks will go there more, who knows (US tourists are still very welcome in Europe, we just hate the people you vote in because they clearly hate us).
  - DeathArrow 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - jajko 2y ago
      Looking at your comment history, it checks out. > What's wrong with El Salvador? Isn't it a diverse country with wonderful people? You are also incorrect in your last 2 sentences but no point breaking it down, that much I've learned in past few years with various versions of maga supporters (yes, we have them in Europe too, they usually vote ultra right pro russian and/or obviously corrupt populists).

threeseed 2y ago

> whilst internationally it's almost entirely "this is catastrophic change" Of course it is. Because the chance of a global recession is about 50% now. Which means millions of people are going to lose their jobs, businesses will collapse, governments will go into deficit and cut services and there will be needless suffering only a few years after COVID.

pjc50 2y ago
I think the recession is already happening, if you look at the markets. The US has suddenly imposed huge sanctions on itself.

verelo 2y ago

Something i like doing from time to time is picking a foreign movie, ie Russian (you know, the standard bad guys) and just pretend it’s a US based movie. Or the reverse, watch something based in the US and turn on Russian dubbing. It’s funny how quickly you realize the bad guys are both sides. I say this because often when trying to interpret media i feel the language and accent of the presenter influences me. “They sound like me” therefore i start with an assumption they think like me. Rarely anyone in fox thinks like me.

pjc50 2y ago
Odd media literacy take? Yes of course the propaganda is supposed to influence you, and of course if you're actually trying to analyse media you shouldn't let it. (I retrospectively put the high point of recent West-China relations some time around the release of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin , which is an obvious propaganda war film with Americans on the "enemy" side .. that was shown in Western cinemas. Certainly in the UK, I think in America as well. Very odd. BTW, MOSFILM is on Youtube if you need some classic Russian cinema)

Arubis 2y ago

Your family member has reason to feel that way. They're in a bubble. Bubbles are great till they pop.

DeathArrow 2y ago

[flagged]

pjc50 2y ago
That's not a plural, it's the standard English pronoun for a person whose gender isn't specified.
- DeathArrow 2y ago
  That's interesting, because when I learned English in school the pronoun for "a person whose gender isn't specified" was he.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    Must have been a long time ago, because efforts to remove "he" as the default gender have been ongoing for years (80s?) and everybody has more or less settled on they rather than the awkward he/she.
    - bmn__ 2y ago
      You are in a bubble if you think that "everybody has […] settled on they". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21179524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21179524
      - pjc50 2y ago
        > All natural languages I know are gendered the same way English is. Finnish has always been gender-neutral: https://finland.fi/han/article/ https://finland.fi/han/article/ Chinese and Japanese also do not have grammatical gender. Chinese imported gendered pronouns about a century ago for ease of translating Western gendered languages, but both languages tend to either refer to people by name or have no word at all and infer from sentence structure.
    - DeathArrow 2y ago