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The thing that keeps my mind boggled is the sheer number of right wing commentators who appear to genuinely believe that it's even remotely possible for America

The thing that keeps my mind boggled is the sheer number of right wing commentators who appear to genuinely believe that it's even remotely possible for America to build (and grow, and mine) everything they need inside of their wall. It's a literally ignorant opinion that requires zero perspective on what the supply and manufacturing chain for the stuff they love to buy actually looks like. All of that doesn't even touch at the jobs Americans clearly do not want part.

ohgr 2y ago
I figure they've been playing Minecraft too much.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
While I'm of the opinion that countries should become more self-sufficient for as many things as possible (because pollution of intercontinental shipping and political tensions / leverage... although that goes both ways), I know it's simply not possible since not everything is available everywhere, resource and knowledge / expertise wise. But if more independence was the goal, they should've made it a long-term goal, not a trap door. China does this a lot better with their 5 year plans in my opinion. I'm not a fan of China either (human rights etc), but they are on track to take over as the world's leading economic force. In fact I think they already are, but the west is sleepwalking. China has got a(n economic) hand in a lot of countries around the world, and I think the raw figures like GPD are only telling part of the story.
- bmicraft 2y ago
  Environmental consequences for shipping are very low compared to technologies like "growing things where they do not natively grow", as in heated greenhouses or drying out the desert to grow water-intensive crops.
  - zombot 2y ago
    How do you dry out a desert?
    - bmicraft 2y ago
      Many deserts do have a limited amount of ground water. If you keep pumping it to the surface not only will be gone soon, it may never replenish as underground aquifers collapse and the soil compacts. I'm not an expert, but this is what I've been told. Also, that's how you get sinkholes.
franktankbank 2y ago
China does it. America is huge and varied in its resources, whats stopping us exactly?
- Balgair 2y ago
  I mean, China imports nearly all of their oil.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Currently? Rare earths. Bauxite. Automobiles (the US auto industry is incredibly intertwined with Canada, and to a lesser degree, Mexico). Diamonds. I'm sure that there are many others that did not come to my mind...
- peteforde 2y ago
  Let's just say that you're more likely to figure out how to cast spells than replicate the Asian fabrication and manufacturing ecosystem and find skilled workers willing to work them for $1000/month.
yolovoe 2y ago
I know your comment is mostly in good faith, but I wish people considered whether it's worth it to use terms like "right wing commentators" instead of the simpler "commentators". The "right wing" label will just shun around half of Americans from taking your comment in good faith. Is the point to snark or to convince people to change their minds?
- senordevnyc 2y ago
  As if you could say anything to convince those people…
- const_cast 2y ago
  [dead]
- peteforde 2y ago
  I sat with your comment, and here's the thing: if there are "left wing" commentators saying that these tariffs make sense or that America can spin up a manufacturing economy in a few weeks "or just stop buying stuff", I haven't seen/found/heard them. In other words, it's a genuine false equivalency, at least in this case. I am most definitely not suggesting that all left-leaning commentators are smart or good-faith actors. The left gets plenty wrong. However, if you're going to force me to take a side on who is currently winning at stupid, I suppose my cards are on the table.

ohgr 2y ago

I figure they've been playing Minecraft too much.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

While I'm of the opinion that countries should become more self-sufficient for as many things as possible (because pollution of intercontinental shipping and political tensions / leverage... although that goes both ways), I know it's simply not possible since not everything is available everywhere, resource and knowledge / expertise wise. But if more independence was the goal, they should've made it a long-term goal, not a trap door. China does this a lot better with their 5 year plans in my opinion. I'm not a fan of China either (human rights etc), but they are on track to take over as the world's leading economic force. In fact I think they already are, but the west is sleepwalking. China has got a(n economic) hand in a lot of countries around the world, and I think the raw figures like GPD are only telling part of the story.

bmicraft 2y ago
Environmental consequences for shipping are very low compared to technologies like "growing things where they do not natively grow", as in heated greenhouses or drying out the desert to grow water-intensive crops.
- zombot 2y ago
  How do you dry out a desert?
  - bmicraft 2y ago
    Many deserts do have a limited amount of ground water. If you keep pumping it to the surface not only will be gone soon, it may never replenish as underground aquifers collapse and the soil compacts. I'm not an expert, but this is what I've been told. Also, that's how you get sinkholes.

franktankbank 2y ago

China does it. America is huge and varied in its resources, whats stopping us exactly?

Balgair 2y ago
I mean, China imports nearly all of their oil.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Currently? Rare earths. Bauxite. Automobiles (the US auto industry is incredibly intertwined with Canada, and to a lesser degree, Mexico). Diamonds. I'm sure that there are many others that did not come to my mind...
peteforde 2y ago
Let's just say that you're more likely to figure out how to cast spells than replicate the Asian fabrication and manufacturing ecosystem and find skilled workers willing to work them for $1000/month.

yolovoe 2y ago

I know your comment is mostly in good faith, but I wish people considered whether it's worth it to use terms like "right wing commentators" instead of the simpler "commentators". The "right wing" label will just shun around half of Americans from taking your comment in good faith. Is the point to snark or to convince people to change their minds?

senordevnyc 2y ago
As if you could say anything to convince those people…
const_cast 2y ago
[dead]
peteforde 2y ago
I sat with your comment, and here's the thing: if there are "left wing" commentators saying that these tariffs make sense or that America can spin up a manufacturing economy in a few weeks "or just stop buying stuff", I haven't seen/found/heard them. In other words, it's a genuine false equivalency, at least in this case. I am most definitely not suggesting that all left-leaning commentators are smart or good-faith actors. The left gets plenty wrong. However, if you're going to force me to take a side on who is currently winning at stupid, I suppose my cards are on the table.