5 ms·

> The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you ar

by imgabe 2y ago

> The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business process. You are literally playing with entire lives here as if they are disposable things. This alone makes what is happening inhumane. This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead. They get a generous severance and find a new job. What are you trying to say here? That once someone is employed, the have to keep being employed forever and ever and they can never be let go even when their job was pointless and anything else is inhumane? Jobs come and go. Every rational adult understands this and makes arrangements for what they need to do if they have to find a new job. Stop acting like these are disabled children that the government is obligated to take care of.

aszantu 2y ago
can just speak for myself, but I wouldn't be employable after a layoff like that... I't get a mental meltdown and afterwards would probably be on disability until I got mentally better. They're literally teaching thausands of people that they aren't reliable and can't be trusted. I mean, if that's what you're aiming for, good for you, but I'd recon that you'll end up with more people that want your head now than before.
- imgabe 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - linkregister 2y ago
    > 8 month severance package Is there any reporting of employees who actually received this, or are you referring to nebulous promise in the "Fork In the Road" email?
    - imgabe 2y ago
      As of right now, workers who took the first buyout offer are still getting paid: https://www.axios.com/2025/04/02/federal-worker-buyouts-trump-administration https://www.axios.com/2025/04/02/federal-worker-buyouts-trum... There is another offer coming up.
      - linkregister 2y ago
        So in other words, none of the fired workers.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    And how are they going to do that without social services, hmm?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
simion314 2y ago
I think the point is that is inhumane to fire someone because of "coding error", from what we know about USA not having a job is affecting your health care so might cost the person life because a "coding error" , so if you are the guy that writes a "findfWhoToFire" function please have some empathy and tripple check your code and write tests, in USA it can cost lives.
serviceberry 2y ago
For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense. But that aside: even if we want to alter the deal, there are good ways and bad ways to do this. Jobs are important because they are a big part of your life and because you need one to pay the bills. So you should try to avoid "haha so long" / "oops, clicked the wrong button, come back" kinds of situations.
- imgabe 2y ago
  > For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense. Yeah, that is definitely "for worse". The point of hiring someone to do a job is to get something useful done. Not to hand out do-nothing sinecures to lucky lottery winners. I have friends who have transitioned from private to public sector and they unanimously complain about how useless the government lifers are. This is your tax money that is being spent.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    > This is your tax money that is being spent. and if you aren't getting what you're owed for that money you have the ability to vote out the people responsible for that and elect people who can deliver what we're asking for. Try voting out the CEO of walmart. Believe it or not, when a bunch of incompetents aren't dismantling them, most government agencies get their work done. There are a lot fewer "do-nothing"s than you think and a lot of hard workers who are proud to serve their fellow Americans.
    - imgabe 2y ago
      You don’t need to vote out the CEO of Wal-Mart. He can’t put you in jail or confiscate your income via taxes. You just go shop at target or somewhere else instead.
linkregister 2y ago
I mostly agree with your position. However there are a couple of issues that make federal government work distinct from ordinary business. 1. Fired federal workers typically do not get a severance. Those impacted by the recent reductions in force are not receiving severance packages. 2. Government salaries are usually uncompetitive compared to the private sector; the major difference is the value of the pension. Leaving government service early results in a low pension; the pension is usually only worth it after 20 years of service and if one leaves federal service close to retirement age, to max out the "high-3" pension basis. 3. Because federal jobs are partially a stimulus effort to state economies, workers will have relocated to a region where there is no other employer in their field. Relocation will be necessary to find another job. This is less of a factor for the private sector, where workers typically move to locations where multiple employers offer jobs for their field. A necessary set of reforms will be to simultaneously a.) raise federal salaries to market rate, b.) replace pension contributions with 401k matching, c.) reduce roadblocks for performance firings for tenured employees, and d.) consolidate contractors into federal employment. Part of the reason federal employment is inflexible is due to the comparatively low income for many fields; mid-career employees have a low incentive for joining. Likewise, the barrier to leaving early is high due to the sunk cost of the pension. A tenured employee with reduced productivity is difficult to remove. Due to the pension obligations, the government is forced to use contractors to fill out the workforce. Contracting companies often take 50% overhead just to have someone doing the same job as a federal employee. Such a policy change would take substantial bipartisan cooperation, so it's unlikely to be done in the current political environment.
- imgabe 2y ago
  > Fired federal workers typically do not get a severance. Those impacted by the recent reductions in force are not receiving severance packages. Not true: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/severance-pay/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-admi... This is separate from the deferred resignation plan DOGE was offering. Under that plan employees voluntarily resigned and continued being employed for approximately 8 months, with full pay and benefits and no duties. They were free to go get another job during that time. That is more generous than most layoffs. The pension / relocation are real issues, but if you work in a job that has a demand in the private sector (e.g. Treasury department going to finance), the increased pay from the private sector often more than makes up for the loss of the pension.
autoexec 2y ago
> This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead People's health insurance is tied to their job. Mass firings by the largest employer in the nation could easily result in several deaths as medical treatments are disrupted and medications missed, delayed, or changed with insurance companies. Not that death is required to screw up your life either. This is not a great time to be out of work. Household debt is at an all time high. Credit card delinquencies and utility disconnections are skyrocketing, homelessness is at an all time high. People are already struggling. Those problems are likely to only get worse for anyone who suddenly finds themselves out of work. Adding hundreds of thousands of Americans to the already growing pool of unemployed people all at once means that jobs will be harder to find and offered wages will be lowered. > What are you trying to say here? That once someone is employed, the have to keep being employed forever Who said anything about forever? Maybe just don't randomly fire vast numbers of Americans indiscriminately and all at once for zero reason disrupting their lives and interfering with services that people want, depend on, and are paying for?
- imgabe 2y ago
  > People's health insurance is tied to their job. Mass firings by the largest employer in the nation could easily result in several deaths as medical treatments are disrupted and medications missed, delayed, or changed with insurance companies. No, this could not "easily" happen. People get COBRA to continue their health coverage after losing their job. There is Medicaid and other programs for people who can't afford care. There are state exchanges where you can purchase insurance upon qualifying events like losing your job. There are a million and one ways to deal with this. Contrary to popular belief people in America do not immediately drop dead the second their health insurance lapses. This is nonsensical fear-mongering.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    COBRA is a joke. It's way too expensive. Medicaid is on the chopping block, but even then it doesn't cover everything and not every doctor accepts Medicaid and "other programs". Tens if not hundreds of thousands of Americans die every year because they don't have insurance and can't afford the treatment they need.
UncleMeat 2y ago
DOGE is destroying entire fields. Maybe you built a career in museum curatorship or international development. You don't get paid much but its a decent living and you feel that you are enriching the world. You don't just wake up without a job. You wake up in a world where you need a totally new career.
- imgabe 2y ago
  There are lots of privately funded museums. Museums are not going to disappear. “International development” is mostly rich failsons with politically connected parents getting funneled taxpayer money via NGOs and/or a front for the CIA. Good riddance.
  - UncleMeat 2y ago
    "Don't worry, you've got six months of emergency fund and jobs come and go" and "good riddance I'm glad their careers are destroyed those lazy leeches" don't feel like they should be placed so close together. I personally believe that making mobile games is less valuable to the world than handing out TB meds, but that's just me.
    - imgabe 2y ago
      Then you are free to spend your own money to hand out TB meds instead of buying mobile games. That’s your prerogative.
      - UncleMeat 2y ago
        I have indeed started giving large amounts of money towards TB aid since Trump gutted things.
      - joquarky 2y ago
        Do you believe that anti-social dispassion will get you far in life?
  - joquarky 2y ago
joquarky 2y ago
Funny that you end your comment this way, as the government is one of the few organizations that readily employed the disabled.

by imgabe 2y ago

aszantu 2y ago

can just speak for myself, but I wouldn't be employable after a layoff like that... I't get a mental meltdown and afterwards would probably be on disability until I got mentally better. They're literally teaching thausands of people that they aren't reliable and can't be trusted. I mean, if that's what you're aiming for, good for you, but I'd recon that you'll end up with more people that want your head now than before.

imgabe 2y ago
[flagged]
- linkregister 2y ago
  > 8 month severance package Is there any reporting of employees who actually received this, or are you referring to nebulous promise in the "Fork In the Road" email?
  - imgabe 2y ago
    As of right now, workers who took the first buyout offer are still getting paid: https://www.axios.com/2025/04/02/federal-worker-buyouts-trump-administration https://www.axios.com/2025/04/02/federal-worker-buyouts-trum... There is another offer coming up.
    - linkregister 2y ago
      So in other words, none of the fired workers.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  And how are they going to do that without social services, hmm?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

simion314 2y ago

I think the point is that is inhumane to fire someone because of "coding error", from what we know about USA not having a job is affecting your health care so might cost the person life because a "coding error" , so if you are the guy that writes a "findfWhoToFire" function please have some empathy and tripple check your code and write tests, in USA it can cost lives.

serviceberry 2y ago

For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense. But that aside: even if we want to alter the deal, there are good ways and bad ways to do this. Jobs are important because they are a big part of your life and because you need one to pay the bills. So you should try to avoid "haha so long" / "oops, clicked the wrong button, come back" kinds of situations.

imgabe 2y ago
> For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense. Yeah, that is definitely "for worse". The point of hiring someone to do a job is to get something useful done. Not to hand out do-nothing sinecures to lucky lottery winners. I have friends who have transitioned from private to public sector and they unanimously complain about how useless the government lifers are. This is your tax money that is being spent.
- autoexec 2y ago
  > This is your tax money that is being spent. and if you aren't getting what you're owed for that money you have the ability to vote out the people responsible for that and elect people who can deliver what we're asking for. Try voting out the CEO of walmart. Believe it or not, when a bunch of incompetents aren't dismantling them, most government agencies get their work done. There are a lot fewer "do-nothing"s than you think and a lot of hard workers who are proud to serve their fellow Americans.
  - imgabe 2y ago
    You don’t need to vote out the CEO of Wal-Mart. He can’t put you in jail or confiscate your income via taxes. You just go shop at target or somewhere else instead.

linkregister 2y ago

I mostly agree with your position. However there are a couple of issues that make federal government work distinct from ordinary business. 1. Fired federal workers typically do not get a severance. Those impacted by the recent reductions in force are not receiving severance packages. 2. Government salaries are usually uncompetitive compared to the private sector; the major difference is the value of the pension. Leaving government service early results in a low pension; the pension is usually only worth it after 20 years of service and if one leaves federal service close to retirement age, to max out the "high-3" pension basis. 3. Because federal jobs are partially a stimulus effort to state economies, workers will have relocated to a region where there is no other employer in their field. Relocation will be necessary to find another job. This is less of a factor for the private sector, where workers typically move to locations where multiple employers offer jobs for their field. A necessary set of reforms will be to simultaneously a.) raise federal salaries to market rate, b.) replace pension contributions with 401k matching, c.) reduce roadblocks for performance firings for tenured employees, and d.) consolidate contractors into federal employment. Part of the reason federal employment is inflexible is due to the comparatively low income for many fields; mid-career employees have a low incentive for joining. Likewise, the barrier to leaving early is high due to the sunk cost of the pension. A tenured employee with reduced productivity is difficult to remove. Due to the pension obligations, the government is forced to use contractors to fill out the workforce. Contracting companies often take 50% overhead just to have someone doing the same job as a federal employee. Such a policy change would take substantial bipartisan cooperation, so it's unlikely to be done in the current political environment.

imgabe 2y ago
> Fired federal workers typically do not get a severance. Those impacted by the recent reductions in force are not receiving severance packages. Not true: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/severance-pay/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-admi... This is separate from the deferred resignation plan DOGE was offering. Under that plan employees voluntarily resigned and continued being employed for approximately 8 months, with full pay and benefits and no duties. They were free to go get another job during that time. That is more generous than most layoffs. The pension / relocation are real issues, but if you work in a job that has a demand in the private sector (e.g. Treasury department going to finance), the increased pay from the private sector often more than makes up for the loss of the pension.

autoexec 2y ago

> This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead People's health insurance is tied to their job. Mass firings by the largest employer in the nation could easily result in several deaths as medical treatments are disrupted and medications missed, delayed, or changed with insurance companies. Not that death is required to screw up your life either. This is not a great time to be out of work. Household debt is at an all time high. Credit card delinquencies and utility disconnections are skyrocketing, homelessness is at an all time high. People are already struggling. Those problems are likely to only get worse for anyone who suddenly finds themselves out of work. Adding hundreds of thousands of Americans to the already growing pool of unemployed people all at once means that jobs will be harder to find and offered wages will be lowered. > What are you trying to say here? That once someone is employed, the have to keep being employed forever Who said anything about forever? Maybe just don't randomly fire vast numbers of Americans indiscriminately and all at once for zero reason disrupting their lives and interfering with services that people want, depend on, and are paying for?

imgabe 2y ago
> People's health insurance is tied to their job. Mass firings by the largest employer in the nation could easily result in several deaths as medical treatments are disrupted and medications missed, delayed, or changed with insurance companies. No, this could not "easily" happen. People get COBRA to continue their health coverage after losing their job. There is Medicaid and other programs for people who can't afford care. There are state exchanges where you can purchase insurance upon qualifying events like losing your job. There are a million and one ways to deal with this. Contrary to popular belief people in America do not immediately drop dead the second their health insurance lapses. This is nonsensical fear-mongering.
- autoexec 2y ago
  COBRA is a joke. It's way too expensive. Medicaid is on the chopping block, but even then it doesn't cover everything and not every doctor accepts Medicaid and "other programs". Tens if not hundreds of thousands of Americans die every year because they don't have insurance and can't afford the treatment they need.

UncleMeat 2y ago

DOGE is destroying entire fields. Maybe you built a career in museum curatorship or international development. You don't get paid much but its a decent living and you feel that you are enriching the world. You don't just wake up without a job. You wake up in a world where you need a totally new career.

imgabe 2y ago
There are lots of privately funded museums. Museums are not going to disappear. “International development” is mostly rich failsons with politically connected parents getting funneled taxpayer money via NGOs and/or a front for the CIA. Good riddance.
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  "Don't worry, you've got six months of emergency fund and jobs come and go" and "good riddance I'm glad their careers are destroyed those lazy leeches" don't feel like they should be placed so close together. I personally believe that making mobile games is less valuable to the world than handing out TB meds, but that's just me.
  - imgabe 2y ago
    Then you are free to spend your own money to hand out TB meds instead of buying mobile games. That’s your prerogative.
    - UncleMeat 2y ago
      I have indeed started giving large amounts of money towards TB aid since Trump gutted things.
    - joquarky 2y ago
      Do you believe that anti-social dispassion will get you far in life?
- joquarky 2y ago

joquarky 2y ago

Funny that you end your comment this way, as the government is one of the few organizations that readily employed the disabled.