6 ms·

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal

by xyst 2y ago

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses across critical departments such as the DOJ - Weaponized incompetence at the DoD under the Hegseth “leadership” with Signalgate being the latest blunder - An unelected, billionaire Musk, with his supposed limited “special government employee” access and DOGE have been cutting public programs left and right. Public programs meant to be our safety nets - Department of Education being undermined by putting incompetent leadership at the top position (a _professional wrestling promoter_) and cutting funding to critical programs for public schools. This is also purportedly to be “abolished” - Then we have a non-medical professional, and health misinformation promoter at the head of HHS. The awful leadership during the measles outbreaks explains itself… Wonder if this is what it was like in the months preceding the _2008 subprime mortage crisis_ Definitely not excited for this recession induced by absolute stupidity. [1] https://www.wsj.com/finance/stocks/u-s-stock-futures-fall-further-after-china-retaliates-against-trump-tariffs-3be33fa7 https://www.wsj.com/finance/stocks/u-s-stock-futures-fall-fu...

dualityoftapirs 2y ago
About 160 million people either actively voted for this or couldn't be bothered to vote so ostensibly think this is ok. This is what the vast majority wants.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
fwip 2y ago
What kind of protest do you imagine could stop Trump from being Trump? His own staff tried that for four years (2016-2020) and made next to no progress. Now he's surrounded himself with enablers, and the Dems won't even make a real effort to oppose the stuff he's doing.
- kurthr 2y ago
  He'd love to call in the National Guard and gun down a few hundred "terrorists". Send a few thousand more of them to El Salvador and MAGA will celebrate.
- duped 2y ago
  The kind where he is forced to leave office and/or the country. Like sedition is a crime still so I'm not going to advocate for the downfall of the US government, but if you're asking "what kind of protest can stop Trump" then there are dozens of examples over the last twenty years to look at for "protests that result in the head of state no longer being the head of state." We're just not there, yet.
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    The revolution will not be planned on Hacker News.
  - fwip 2y ago
    I agree - there's not much leverage that "we the people" have at this point, without the threat of a violent revolution.
kurthr 2y ago
Don't forget Monday futures are limit down. NASDAQ Fri Close Mon Open Change 18,656.47 16,746.00 -1,910.47 https://www.cnbc.com/pre-markets/ You can hope for a relief rally Tuesday after they hit the circuit breakers.
brigandish 2y ago
> Wonder if this is what it was like in the months preceding the _2008 subprime mortage crisis_ Some people were warning about possible problems in the markets, but no, in general the media were chugging along as normal, they're most excitable when they're either against the ruling force or there's blood in the water. This reminds me of 2016-2020.
racedude 2y ago
well said.
black_13 2y ago
[dead]
freeone3000 2y ago
> Wonder if this is what it was like in the months preceding the _2008 subprime mortage crisis_ No, that was mostly people just living their lives with a few standard shows about "housing prices are high again and people are worried" followed by months of "houses are worth nothing now and lots of people cannot pay their mortgages and cannot refinance" and then a few years of "this was a 100% illegal eviction notice, did you even check or just assume none of your customers paid?" Nothing at all like what's currently going on in the US federal government right now.
hattmall 2y ago
For most people, particularly those who don't work in government. The federal government represents problems, aggravation, frustration and general resentment. Practically no one walks away from interactions with the federal government with a positive feeling. Dealing with the bureaucracy is generally awful. Most of the time you will go through several employees over the course of hours/days/weeks or even years and you wonder how they manage to get dressed each day. Eventually you get someone who solves your problem in about 20 seconds. I don't know if you have ever dealt with the TSA in any meaningful capacity but they are by far the most competent government agency that interacts with the public. I've worked with law enforcement dealing with computer forensics and our state investigators are reasonably competent. We have had to deal with people in federal agencies and it's mind boggling. I'm talking like a PDF emailed of html source code for a login page with the subject "Run this in power shell". That's coming in on a Friday at 4:55 when we have been waiting for a week and they don't respond back until Wednesday with a reply like "team is checking this out". Eventually someone will mail you a DVD of a screen recording of them logging into a system that's running on a local IP and then 12 minutes of explaining boolean operators.
- thomasfromcdnjs 2y ago
  Baha
- wredcoll 2y ago
  I mean, I feel like you might be aware of this, but what you're describing is literally PR and propaganda. Many millions of people get social security/etc payments every month from the federal government, but of course that doesn't count. "Keep the gov out of my medicare!" anyone? People have a real short memory and nobody appreciates the lack of mercury and arsenic in their sausages today, it's all about "what are you going to do tomorrow?" I'm probably not cruel enough to do it but I wish every person who spoke like you just did would have to live a month or whatever without all of the benefits of the government.
  - hattmall 2y ago
    I'm speaking to the experience of dealing with the government. It's not propaganda, this is literally what happens. Everyone independently coming to the same conclusion based on their personal experience isn't propaganda. It's reality. Have you ever tried to deal with the government. I have unfortunately had a lot of dealing with Social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. From having to deal with aging parents. Yes, perhaps once you have gone through the extreme myriad of hoops to get everything set up and your check is automatically coming then yes it's ok. But you better hope no one gets some piece of PII and files something that throws it off. >I'm probably not cruel enough to do it but I wish every person who spoke like you just did would have to live a month or whatever without all of the benefits of the government. This is a horrible authoritarian justification. People shouldn't be made to starve so they can appreciate the gruel they are given versus having nothing. We should have a functional, efficient, and pleasant government that isn't adversarial to the general population. Do you have any idea how long it can take to get a Medicare / SSI disability claim approved? It was two years for my family member and that's with a very legitimate non-controversial terminal diagnosis. She finally got approved about 3 months before she was on Hospice. And this is someone with reasonable resources and active family members advocating for her. I can't imagine what it's like for low income people without resources or education. That's not just me though, here's a reddit thread of lots of other people with similar or worse experiences, ( and some better). https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialSecurity/comments/1c0e8uk/how_long_did_it_take_you_to_get_approved_for_ssdi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialSecurity/comments/1c0e8uk/how... The fact of the matter is the majority of people don't have positive experiences when dealing with the government. I'm not even sure who is supposed to be pushing this propaganda. I would love for it to be the other way around and the government provides clear value in a helpful way, but that is simply not what people experience. And that's not even getting into what it's like when you start getting copious amounts of automated nonsensical threatening form letters from the IRS.
stepanhruda 2y ago
The only way we can do something is if these actions become deeply unpopular - which they currently aren’t, still about 43% of the population are totally onboard. All we can do is wait for the empire to tumble enough until people without empathy become personally affected and turn sour. My guess is it won’t take the full 4 years.
- collingreen 2y ago
  A problem is those people would then need to identify their dissatisfaction as a result of these haphazard cuts and policies, which will be directly contradicted by propaganda telling them this is actually proof we need to cut even more. If the government services are being intentionally crippled so that people are unhappy with them then things are going exactly to plan and won't lead to any mass "realizations" of our mistakes. Even if the current administration ISNT intentionally trying to cause harm and trauma (despite direct quotes posted in this thread saying they are) then the American people will end up with a choice to either cut the last bits of broken government or pay (way) more taxes and try to rebuild them. I fear we will collectively pick the former and put our heads in the sand about the damage unregulated private companies will do when put in a position like that (like today's internet utilities, private power companies, the for-profit prison nightmare, health insurance companies denying 90% of claims using software they know is wrong, and the defense mega contractors). I wonder how far it will go. These folks seem to like following the cliche of taking cautionary tales and reading them like manuals so maybe we'll have snowcrash style corporate 'burbs and private police armies soon.
jmcgough 2y ago
We will never recover from the damage they are doing, at least not in our lifetimes. It is so much easier to destroy than to create, and so many of the services and research performed by the NIH and CDC are truly irreplaceable. The top cause of death among US children is drowning, and the CDC is the only national group studying and giving prevention training to at risk kids, particularly states with high drowning deaths like Florida. That entire team is gone now, along with many others.
whoisthemachine 2y ago
In regards to Federal agencies, a lot of it comes down to many people just not knowing much about these agencies, and much of what they do know are the scary bits and pieces capitalists have broadcast through their media (I hesitate to just call them conservatives, as their agenda is completely separate from moving law and government in a slow, conservative manner). I for one didn't even know we had an agency like USAID, which sounds like it has done wonderful work around the world. Most people (again, myself included), probably don't know just what the DOE's main function is. Turns out it's a pretty hands-off agency, and shutting it down will mostly just harm kids with disabilities. Why we shut these agencies down is beyond me, but I guess it makes them look like they're doing something without going after the actual big fish, like our national "defense" apparatus. Oh no, there we're going to build a "golden dome". A very "efficient" one I'm sure.
bee_rider 2y ago
There were some pretty big protests Saturday. But, realistically, we aren’t going to have the sort of protests that, like, overthrow governments in the US. We tend to have rallies and marches rather than riots and rebellions. These are really 1) exercise in venting/speaking out/awareness raising 2) networking events for activists. Eventually the activists and movements aim to get votes in the next election. Get funding for the opposition party’s legal fights and campaigns. That sort of thing. So, for the most part it’ll be the Trump & Friends show until the midterms at least. It isn’t complacency I think, I mean the opportunity to pick an alternative happened in the past. Is it complacency to live in the outcomes of what has already happened?

by xyst 2y ago

dualityoftapirs 2y ago

About 160 million people either actively voted for this or couldn't be bothered to vote so ostensibly think this is ok. This is what the vast majority wants.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

fwip 2y ago

What kind of protest do you imagine could stop Trump from being Trump? His own staff tried that for four years (2016-2020) and made next to no progress. Now he's surrounded himself with enablers, and the Dems won't even make a real effort to oppose the stuff he's doing.

kurthr 2y ago
He'd love to call in the National Guard and gun down a few hundred "terrorists". Send a few thousand more of them to El Salvador and MAGA will celebrate.
duped 2y ago
The kind where he is forced to leave office and/or the country. Like sedition is a crime still so I'm not going to advocate for the downfall of the US government, but if you're asking "what kind of protest can stop Trump" then there are dozens of examples over the last twenty years to look at for "protests that result in the head of state no longer being the head of state." We're just not there, yet.
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  The revolution will not be planned on Hacker News.
- fwip 2y ago
  I agree - there's not much leverage that "we the people" have at this point, without the threat of a violent revolution.

kurthr 2y ago

Don't forget Monday futures are limit down. NASDAQ Fri Close Mon Open Change 18,656.47 16,746.00 -1,910.47 https://www.cnbc.com/pre-markets/ You can hope for a relief rally Tuesday after they hit the circuit breakers.

brigandish 2y ago

> Wonder if this is what it was like in the months preceding the _2008 subprime mortage crisis_ Some people were warning about possible problems in the markets, but no, in general the media were chugging along as normal, they're most excitable when they're either against the ruling force or there's blood in the water. This reminds me of 2016-2020.

racedude 2y ago

well said.

black_13 2y ago

[dead]

freeone3000 2y ago

> Wonder if this is what it was like in the months preceding the _2008 subprime mortage crisis_ No, that was mostly people just living their lives with a few standard shows about "housing prices are high again and people are worried" followed by months of "houses are worth nothing now and lots of people cannot pay their mortgages and cannot refinance" and then a few years of "this was a 100% illegal eviction notice, did you even check or just assume none of your customers paid?" Nothing at all like what's currently going on in the US federal government right now.

hattmall 2y ago

For most people, particularly those who don't work in government. The federal government represents problems, aggravation, frustration and general resentment. Practically no one walks away from interactions with the federal government with a positive feeling. Dealing with the bureaucracy is generally awful. Most of the time you will go through several employees over the course of hours/days/weeks or even years and you wonder how they manage to get dressed each day. Eventually you get someone who solves your problem in about 20 seconds. I don't know if you have ever dealt with the TSA in any meaningful capacity but they are by far the most competent government agency that interacts with the public. I've worked with law enforcement dealing with computer forensics and our state investigators are reasonably competent. We have had to deal with people in federal agencies and it's mind boggling. I'm talking like a PDF emailed of html source code for a login page with the subject "Run this in power shell". That's coming in on a Friday at 4:55 when we have been waiting for a week and they don't respond back until Wednesday with a reply like "team is checking this out". Eventually someone will mail you a DVD of a screen recording of them logging into a system that's running on a local IP and then 12 minutes of explaining boolean operators.

thomasfromcdnjs 2y ago
Baha
wredcoll 2y ago
I mean, I feel like you might be aware of this, but what you're describing is literally PR and propaganda. Many millions of people get social security/etc payments every month from the federal government, but of course that doesn't count. "Keep the gov out of my medicare!" anyone? People have a real short memory and nobody appreciates the lack of mercury and arsenic in their sausages today, it's all about "what are you going to do tomorrow?" I'm probably not cruel enough to do it but I wish every person who spoke like you just did would have to live a month or whatever without all of the benefits of the government.
- hattmall 2y ago
  I'm speaking to the experience of dealing with the government. It's not propaganda, this is literally what happens. Everyone independently coming to the same conclusion based on their personal experience isn't propaganda. It's reality. Have you ever tried to deal with the government. I have unfortunately had a lot of dealing with Social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. From having to deal with aging parents. Yes, perhaps once you have gone through the extreme myriad of hoops to get everything set up and your check is automatically coming then yes it's ok. But you better hope no one gets some piece of PII and files something that throws it off. >I'm probably not cruel enough to do it but I wish every person who spoke like you just did would have to live a month or whatever without all of the benefits of the government. This is a horrible authoritarian justification. People shouldn't be made to starve so they can appreciate the gruel they are given versus having nothing. We should have a functional, efficient, and pleasant government that isn't adversarial to the general population. Do you have any idea how long it can take to get a Medicare / SSI disability claim approved? It was two years for my family member and that's with a very legitimate non-controversial terminal diagnosis. She finally got approved about 3 months before she was on Hospice. And this is someone with reasonable resources and active family members advocating for her. I can't imagine what it's like for low income people without resources or education. That's not just me though, here's a reddit thread of lots of other people with similar or worse experiences, ( and some better). https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialSecurity/comments/1c0e8uk/how_long_did_it_take_you_to_get_approved_for_ssdi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialSecurity/comments/1c0e8uk/how... The fact of the matter is the majority of people don't have positive experiences when dealing with the government. I'm not even sure who is supposed to be pushing this propaganda. I would love for it to be the other way around and the government provides clear value in a helpful way, but that is simply not what people experience. And that's not even getting into what it's like when you start getting copious amounts of automated nonsensical threatening form letters from the IRS.

stepanhruda 2y ago

The only way we can do something is if these actions become deeply unpopular - which they currently aren’t, still about 43% of the population are totally onboard. All we can do is wait for the empire to tumble enough until people without empathy become personally affected and turn sour. My guess is it won’t take the full 4 years.

collingreen 2y ago
A problem is those people would then need to identify their dissatisfaction as a result of these haphazard cuts and policies, which will be directly contradicted by propaganda telling them this is actually proof we need to cut even more. If the government services are being intentionally crippled so that people are unhappy with them then things are going exactly to plan and won't lead to any mass "realizations" of our mistakes. Even if the current administration ISNT intentionally trying to cause harm and trauma (despite direct quotes posted in this thread saying they are) then the American people will end up with a choice to either cut the last bits of broken government or pay (way) more taxes and try to rebuild them. I fear we will collectively pick the former and put our heads in the sand about the damage unregulated private companies will do when put in a position like that (like today's internet utilities, private power companies, the for-profit prison nightmare, health insurance companies denying 90% of claims using software they know is wrong, and the defense mega contractors). I wonder how far it will go. These folks seem to like following the cliche of taking cautionary tales and reading them like manuals so maybe we'll have snowcrash style corporate 'burbs and private police armies soon.

jmcgough 2y ago

We will never recover from the damage they are doing, at least not in our lifetimes. It is so much easier to destroy than to create, and so many of the services and research performed by the NIH and CDC are truly irreplaceable. The top cause of death among US children is drowning, and the CDC is the only national group studying and giving prevention training to at risk kids, particularly states with high drowning deaths like Florida. That entire team is gone now, along with many others.

whoisthemachine 2y ago

In regards to Federal agencies, a lot of it comes down to many people just not knowing much about these agencies, and much of what they do know are the scary bits and pieces capitalists have broadcast through their media (I hesitate to just call them conservatives, as their agenda is completely separate from moving law and government in a slow, conservative manner). I for one didn't even know we had an agency like USAID, which sounds like it has done wonderful work around the world. Most people (again, myself included), probably don't know just what the DOE's main function is. Turns out it's a pretty hands-off agency, and shutting it down will mostly just harm kids with disabilities. Why we shut these agencies down is beyond me, but I guess it makes them look like they're doing something without going after the actual big fish, like our national "defense" apparatus. Oh no, there we're going to build a "golden dome". A very "efficient" one I'm sure.

bee_rider 2y ago

There were some pretty big protests Saturday. But, realistically, we aren’t going to have the sort of protests that, like, overthrow governments in the US. We tend to have rallies and marches rather than riots and rebellions. These are really 1) exercise in venting/speaking out/awareness raising 2) networking events for activists. Eventually the activists and movements aim to get votes in the next election. Get funding for the opposition party’s legal fights and campaigns. That sort of thing. So, for the most part it’ll be the Trump & Friends show until the midterms at least. It isn’t complacency I think, I mean the opportunity to pick an alternative happened in the past. Is it complacency to live in the outcomes of what has already happened?