4 ms·

I've started two companies that took out patents, and thus have seen this up close. My experience is: - The market doesn't care about patents. Whether your pro

by mixmax 18y ago

I've started two companies that took out patents, and thus have seen this up close. My experience is: - The market doesn't care about patents. Whether your product is good or bad a patent makes absolutely no difference to a customer. - Competitors care very little about patents. They know the cost of patent litigation, and that you probably can't afford it. Even if you could they would probably be able to strike a deal. - Investors, on the other hand, do care about patents. The thinking seems to go along the lones of I have no idea which company to invest in, but the ones that have a patent must be the smart ones. So those are the ones I'll invest in. - This is from Denmark, and may be different depending on your meatspace coordinates. - Patents take time and focus. Patenting takes the focus off your product and selling it, and patents don't get you customers. I would say that if you're gunning for investors get a patent, if you're not don't. Hope it helps. Edit: bonusinfo: If you have to go out and get a job at some point later in life a patent definitely helps. Employers are pretty impressed when you can say that you're so smart that you've taken out a patent...

goodgoblin 18y ago
Thanks - kind of what I was hoping someone would say. Our lawyer is a bit of a salesman, not really, but it amounts to as much, him saying "if you don't do X, Y Z bad things might happen." but we are thinking, it would mean we are in a good position if we do get sued for patent infringement or whatever down the road if someone else goes for this, etc. It kind of feels like an insurance policy that we can't afford for a set of circumstances that don't seem all that likely. Totally agree on the focus issue, my partner is spending all her time stressing about this b/c the clock is ticking and I ended up reading a bunch of patents the other day as well instead of focusing on the product. Thanks for a business perspective - we are new to this so I really do appreciate your thoughts on the subject.
- mixmax 18y ago
  No worries. Throw me a mail if you want to talk more :-)
- davo11 18y ago
  By lodging a provisional and having a released product that implements the invention, I believe no one else can patent that invention, even if you don't proceed with the patent. Ask your lawyer. A patent search will reveal if someone else has patented this already and would be a bit cheaper. Also shop around and get quotes from a couple of lawyers.
jwilliams 18y ago
Investors, on the other hand, do care about patents. This is one reason to keep patents provisional as long as possible - you get the investors to cover the capital outlay of executing the patent. If you launch into the WIPO "International Patent" process, for an upfront cost (US$5k or so - varies a lot on circumstances) you can extend the process by quite a bit - up to 18 months iirc. My bus partner wrote a blog on this after we'd done rounds of meetings with attorneys : http://www.jodoro.com/2008/09/patent-discussions.html http://www.jodoro.com/2008/09/patent-discussions.html
- mixmax 18y ago
  Sound advice.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
    - jwilliams 18y ago
      "Bang for the buck", your US Patent is your best value worldwide. I didn't say you needed to file everywhere - in fact you can't. You get to nominate in the WIPO process which countries you want to execute with. The international examiners also give a lot of good feedback as they have a lot of experience about the individual countries - e.g. This will have problems in EU, but is fine in the US. So if you decide the US is enough, that's fine - if you decide EU, US, AU, JP, that's fine too.
      - gravitycop 18y ago
        Sorry, I deleted my comment right after I posted it because I decided I wasn't sure about what you were saying.
- goodgoblin 18y ago
  Thanks for the tip. Right now we are thinking about dropping the whole thing but we'll talk to our lawyer tomorrow and see what kind of wiggle room there is.
11ren 18y ago
Most startups that succeed do it by getting bought, and most acquirers care about patents. Startup acquisitions are usually a build-vs-buy decision for the acquirer. Should we buy this little startup or build our own? And two things, especially, make them decide not to build their own: if you already have a large and rapidly growing user base, and if you have a fairly solid patent application on critical parts of your software. http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html
11ren 18y ago
Excellent points. My experience is no further than a DIY provisional patent, using "Patent It Yourself" (which seems a little bit unreliable to me). A danger I've found with patenting is that it encourages a competitor-focus (attack and defend), instead of a customer-focus (making a difference, creating something needed). Patenting has similarities to a research thesis - articulating the idea helps you understand it; researching prior art contributes to your store of ideas.

by mixmax 18y ago

goodgoblin 18y ago

Thanks - kind of what I was hoping someone would say. Our lawyer is a bit of a salesman, not really, but it amounts to as much, him saying "if you don't do X, Y Z bad things might happen." but we are thinking, it would mean we are in a good position if we do get sued for patent infringement or whatever down the road if someone else goes for this, etc. It kind of feels like an insurance policy that we can't afford for a set of circumstances that don't seem all that likely. Totally agree on the focus issue, my partner is spending all her time stressing about this b/c the clock is ticking and I ended up reading a bunch of patents the other day as well instead of focusing on the product. Thanks for a business perspective - we are new to this so I really do appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

mixmax 18y ago
No worries. Throw me a mail if you want to talk more :-)
davo11 18y ago
By lodging a provisional and having a released product that implements the invention, I believe no one else can patent that invention, even if you don't proceed with the patent. Ask your lawyer. A patent search will reveal if someone else has patented this already and would be a bit cheaper. Also shop around and get quotes from a couple of lawyers.

jwilliams 18y ago

Investors, on the other hand, do care about patents. This is one reason to keep patents provisional as long as possible - you get the investors to cover the capital outlay of executing the patent. If you launch into the WIPO "International Patent" process, for an upfront cost (US$5k or so - varies a lot on circumstances) you can extend the process by quite a bit - up to 18 months iirc. My bus partner wrote a blog on this after we'd done rounds of meetings with attorneys : http://www.jodoro.com/2008/09/patent-discussions.html http://www.jodoro.com/2008/09/patent-discussions.html

mixmax 18y ago
Sound advice.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
  - jwilliams 18y ago
    "Bang for the buck", your US Patent is your best value worldwide. I didn't say you needed to file everywhere - in fact you can't. You get to nominate in the WIPO process which countries you want to execute with. The international examiners also give a lot of good feedback as they have a lot of experience about the individual countries - e.g. This will have problems in EU, but is fine in the US. So if you decide the US is enough, that's fine - if you decide EU, US, AU, JP, that's fine too.
    - gravitycop 18y ago
      Sorry, I deleted my comment right after I posted it because I decided I wasn't sure about what you were saying.
goodgoblin 18y ago
Thanks for the tip. Right now we are thinking about dropping the whole thing but we'll talk to our lawyer tomorrow and see what kind of wiggle room there is.

11ren 18y ago

Most startups that succeed do it by getting bought, and most acquirers care about patents. Startup acquisitions are usually a build-vs-buy decision for the acquirer. Should we buy this little startup or build our own? And two things, especially, make them decide not to build their own: if you already have a large and rapidly growing user base, and if you have a fairly solid patent application on critical parts of your software. http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html

11ren 18y ago

Excellent points. My experience is no further than a DIY provisional patent, using "Patent It Yourself" (which seems a little bit unreliable to me). A danger I've found with patenting is that it encourages a competitor-focus (attack and defend), instead of a customer-focus (making a difference, creating something needed). Patenting has similarities to a research thesis - articulating the idea helps you understand it; researching prior art contributes to your store of ideas.