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It is however modern economics that has got us into an exponential multi-deca-trillion dollar debt from which there is no coming back. It has architectured the

It is however modern economics that has got us into an exponential multi-deca-trillion dollar debt from which there is no coming back. It has architectured the inevitable currency collapse.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pfisch 2y ago
Economics is not forcing the GOP to extend the tax cuts right now. Economics do not override politicians.
pfisch 2y ago
This is like blaming scientists for global warming because there are a small group of scientists willing to sell their credibility to justify not taking action against climate change.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> modern economics that has got us into an exponential multi-deca-trillion dollar debt Are you referring to MMT [1]? Because it’s not mainstream economics. And it never said you can run deficits without consequence, just that inflation is the limiting result. Which is technically true. But practically useless given the short-term interests of politicians. Mainstream economics has cautioned against the national debt for decades. Idiots got pitched that economists don’t know what they’re talking about, meanwhile, and so that advice was ignored. Now we’ve gone full circle to blaming the field for the outcome it predicted. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  MMT is about as mainstream as it gets for monetary theories.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > MMT is about as mainstream as it gets for monetary theories It’s not, literally the first consequential term in the Wikipedia article is “heterodox,” but I’m curious where you came to believe this?
    - notahacker 2y ago
      And about 50% of MMT literature is attacks on mainstream economics [or straw man versions of mainstream economics]...
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        It’s analogous to MOND [1]. Mathematically valid. Genuinely interesting. An active field of research. But heterodox, and thus coming with a stable of armchair physicists who are drawn to it because it feels rebellious. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics
    - pclmulqdq 2y ago
      "Heterodox" is a term of art in economics, it doesn't mean what "heterodox" means in English. And the justifications given for most social policies come from MMT. Policy makers love MMT, especially progressive ones and ones who want to give out helicopter money. Economists seem cooler on the idea, but it's a mainstream theory among people making economic decisions. MMT is mostly just Keynseanism taken to a sort of unintuitive but logical conclusion. It's not nearly as heterodox (using the English word) as something like Austrian economics.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > "Heterodox" is a term of art in economics, it doesn't mean what "heterodox" means in English Seriously, where are you getting this? The first consequential word in the article! It’s literally a link to an article about heterodox economics [1]! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodox_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodox_economics
PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
> It has architectured the inevitable currency collapse. I'm 61. I've been hearing this about the US national debt since I was a teenager. When do you imagine this "inevitable" currency collapse will occur? Do you consider the recent actions of the current administration to make it more or less likely?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  It’s a secular version of the Rapture.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    That’s a good analogy. Like the Rapture, the people who talk the most about it seem curiously hurried to bring it on.
- YZF 2y ago
  During your lifetime the US economic and political status in the world has been on the rise. It was viewed as an island of stability and growth. I think the current administration isn't helping but we're talking about a multi-decade process here. Some of what we see today goes back to Bush and Obama policies. It also goes to geopolitical changes, China, India, Russia. Globalization. Technological changes. Climate change. etc. etc.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    > During your lifetime the US economic and political status in the world has been on the rise. And yet ... various people, mostly republicans, have spent a good part of my lifetime telling us that the sky is about to fall in. It may yet fall. But they are starting to seem more like boys that like to cry wolf than prophets.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  You have been hearing since you were a teenager that people are mortal, that you yourself are mortal, yet you haven't witnessed it yourself. Do you therefore imagine that you are not, that it is not inevitable?
kentm 2y ago
I don’t think it’s economics that got us into that. It’s primarily been incredible fiscal irresponsibility, mainly from Republicans, that has done so. Congress hasn’t really agreed or followed mainstream economics as long as I’ve been alive.

It is however modern economics that has got us into an exponential multi-deca-trillion dollar debt from which there is no coming back. It has architectured the inevitable currency collapse.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

pfisch 2y ago

Economics is not forcing the GOP to extend the tax cuts right now. Economics do not override politicians.

pfisch 2y ago

This is like blaming scientists for global warming because there are a small group of scientists willing to sell their credibility to justify not taking action against climate change.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> modern economics that has got us into an exponential multi-deca-trillion dollar debt Are you referring to MMT [1]? Because it’s not mainstream economics. And it never said you can run deficits without consequence, just that inflation is the limiting result. Which is technically true. But practically useless given the short-term interests of politicians. Mainstream economics has cautioned against the national debt for decades. Idiots got pitched that economists don’t know what they’re talking about, meanwhile, and so that advice was ignored. Now we’ve gone full circle to blaming the field for the outcome it predicted. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory

pclmulqdq 2y ago
MMT is about as mainstream as it gets for monetary theories.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > MMT is about as mainstream as it gets for monetary theories It’s not, literally the first consequential term in the Wikipedia article is “heterodox,” but I’m curious where you came to believe this?
  - notahacker 2y ago
    And about 50% of MMT literature is attacks on mainstream economics [or straw man versions of mainstream economics]...
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      It’s analogous to MOND [1]. Mathematically valid. Genuinely interesting. An active field of research. But heterodox, and thus coming with a stable of armchair physicists who are drawn to it because it feels rebellious. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    "Heterodox" is a term of art in economics, it doesn't mean what "heterodox" means in English. And the justifications given for most social policies come from MMT. Policy makers love MMT, especially progressive ones and ones who want to give out helicopter money. Economists seem cooler on the idea, but it's a mainstream theory among people making economic decisions. MMT is mostly just Keynseanism taken to a sort of unintuitive but logical conclusion. It's not nearly as heterodox (using the English word) as something like Austrian economics.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > "Heterodox" is a term of art in economics, it doesn't mean what "heterodox" means in English Seriously, where are you getting this? The first consequential word in the article! It’s literally a link to an article about heterodox economics [1]! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodox_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodox_economics

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago

> It has architectured the inevitable currency collapse. I'm 61. I've been hearing this about the US national debt since I was a teenager. When do you imagine this "inevitable" currency collapse will occur? Do you consider the recent actions of the current administration to make it more or less likely?

ceejayoz 2y ago
It’s a secular version of the Rapture.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  That’s a good analogy. Like the Rapture, the people who talk the most about it seem curiously hurried to bring it on.
YZF 2y ago
During your lifetime the US economic and political status in the world has been on the rise. It was viewed as an island of stability and growth. I think the current administration isn't helping but we're talking about a multi-decade process here. Some of what we see today goes back to Bush and Obama policies. It also goes to geopolitical changes, China, India, Russia. Globalization. Technological changes. Climate change. etc. etc.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  > During your lifetime the US economic and political status in the world has been on the rise. And yet ... various people, mostly republicans, have spent a good part of my lifetime telling us that the sky is about to fall in. It may yet fall. But they are starting to seem more like boys that like to cry wolf than prophets.
OutOfHere 2y ago
You have been hearing since you were a teenager that people are mortal, that you yourself are mortal, yet you haven't witnessed it yourself. Do you therefore imagine that you are not, that it is not inevitable?

kentm 2y ago

I don’t think it’s economics that got us into that. It’s primarily been incredible fiscal irresponsibility, mainly from Republicans, that has done so. Congress hasn’t really agreed or followed mainstream economics as long as I’ve been alive.