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"Smaller older roads" XD We don't live every family in a house miles away from work, schools and friends. Many of us live in cities, within flats, with lines o

"Smaller older roads" XD We don't live every family in a house miles away from work, schools and friends. Many of us live in cities, within flats, with lines of metro or bus close by. Our children go walking to schools. Roads are fine and maintained so regular vehicles can be used instead of 4x4, bikes are respected. Roads have sidewalks to walk.

poincaredisk 2y ago
Have you ever been in the US? The roads there are huge. Road lanes are huge. Cars are huge. Crossroads are huge. Parking spots are extremely large. European roads are fine, but they are way more narrow and tuned for smaller vehicles. It's easier to drive with a smaller car (or "normal sized" for you). Also in Europe in the west we have narrow or paved historical roads, and in the east we have many poor quality roads. In both cases smaller (non-huge) car is beneficial.
- n3storm 2y ago
  They are huge indeed. But is not the reason we don't buy USA cars. In the countryside yes, for years, because they are useful. Transport tools, materials, dogs... Cities center are transitioning to no-cars, so paved historical roads is not an issue. Europe is quite a mix also, maybe is an issue in your area, not in Spain.
- rstuart4133 2y ago
  I think the point @n3storm is making isn't about the size of the roads. It's far more radical than that. They are saying European city's haven't just ditched SUV's - they have ditched cars. If you come from somewhere like the USA, Canada or Australia, it's hard to imagine that's even possible. Actually, it isn't possible in the suburbia's those countries have built to house their people. But it turns out it is not just possible if build your cities differently, it's better in some ways. It costs less because there are no cars, you waste far less time in commute, and its healthier because people get more exercise (they use their legs to move around). "They have ditched cars" is an exaggeration of course. A lot of them still have cars. But most days, they won't use it. Daily commutes are done on foot, or bike. Long distance commutes have a public transport leg. It's hard to get your head around unless you live there for a few weeks.
  - washadjeffmad 2y ago
    Most of the world didn't ditch cars, exactly. They just predate them. Car culture is recent and pretty uniquely American. I lived in a pre-car city with a lot of ~8ft lanes and "double lanes" that were converted into one-ways to accommodate modern cars and trucks.
    - rstuart4133 2y ago
      > Most of the world didn't ditch cars, exactly. They just predate them. It's true they predate them, but then so do most American cities. When the car arrived the American cities opted to expand their cities, giving everyone their own block of lawn to live on. The European cities could have expanded in the same way too. Utrecht went as far as to build freeways to make it possible. But in the end, they opted not to and Utrecht in particular turned their brand new freeways into canals. > Car culture is recent and pretty uniquely American. American certainly has it's own unique culture, but I think we are discussing a specific characteristic of that culture which it shares with other countries like Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The density of most cities in those countries is so low owning a car is mandatory. Existing without one is almost impossible. I know because live in one. Quoting a Japanese exchange student who lives with us for a while - to her surprise even with two cars getting to everywhere we had to be in an average week was a major logistical exercise. In the countries @n3storm is talking about, car ownership is completely optional.
kubb 2y ago
There's no point in explaining that. A lot of them have never been outside the country and maybe Canada. Even if they can afford to go somewhere they don't have the time. They can only imagine the world outside as a version of what they know. And everywhere they went hasn't been very different from what they have at home. They won't be able to imagine it.
- Aloisius 2y ago
  You're assuming a lot given HN's American demographic isn't exactly reflective of the general population. Even among the American general populace, most have traveled to a country besides Canada.
  - willhslade 2y ago
    Doubt. https://www.apolloacademy.com/48-of-americans-have-a-passport/ https://www.apolloacademy.com/48-of-americans-have-a-passpor...
    - Aloisius 2y ago
      Just because only 48% of people have a current passport, doesn't mean only 48% have ever had a passport. A majority of Americans have traveled to two or more countries: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/12/most-americans-have-traveled-abroad-although-differences-among-demographic-groups-are-large/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/12/most-amer...
      - magicalhippo 2y ago
        Interesting. When I visited the US in 2003, I recall the news reporting on a study showing that more than half had never been to another country, and they stressed that that included Canada and Mexico. It became a bit of a discussion point during the ride with the those I visited.
ChocolateGod 2y ago
When I say "old", I am referring to that the layout/route was thought of centuries ago, long before the invention of the car or anything remotely close. e.g. London.
- mananaysiempre 2y ago
  London is somewhat unusual in that its streets are actually rather wide for a European city, due to urban planning regulations enacted after the Great Fire and (until recently) the willingness of its inhabintants to demolish historical buildings. Paris, Vienna, or Prague, for example, are generally much denser, not to mention genuinely medieval cities like Girona.
- n3storm 2y ago
  London is not a representation of Europe, nor Madrid. Even Paris is completely differente. Germany was full rebuild after war. So, is Europe is a mix, but roads are not the reason to not buy tractors, is utility. Tractors are for country work.
lucianbr 2y ago
The roads are smaller and older. It's just that that isn't a bad thing. And it is a bad thing for cars. It's just not a bad thing for people, because good alternatives to cars exist.

poincaredisk 2y ago

Have you ever been in the US? The roads there are huge. Road lanes are huge. Cars are huge. Crossroads are huge. Parking spots are extremely large. European roads are fine, but they are way more narrow and tuned for smaller vehicles. It's easier to drive with a smaller car (or "normal sized" for you). Also in Europe in the west we have narrow or paved historical roads, and in the east we have many poor quality roads. In both cases smaller (non-huge) car is beneficial.

n3storm 2y ago
They are huge indeed. But is not the reason we don't buy USA cars. In the countryside yes, for years, because they are useful. Transport tools, materials, dogs... Cities center are transitioning to no-cars, so paved historical roads is not an issue. Europe is quite a mix also, maybe is an issue in your area, not in Spain.
rstuart4133 2y ago
I think the point @n3storm is making isn't about the size of the roads. It's far more radical than that. They are saying European city's haven't just ditched SUV's - they have ditched cars. If you come from somewhere like the USA, Canada or Australia, it's hard to imagine that's even possible. Actually, it isn't possible in the suburbia's those countries have built to house their people. But it turns out it is not just possible if build your cities differently, it's better in some ways. It costs less because there are no cars, you waste far less time in commute, and its healthier because people get more exercise (they use their legs to move around). "They have ditched cars" is an exaggeration of course. A lot of them still have cars. But most days, they won't use it. Daily commutes are done on foot, or bike. Long distance commutes have a public transport leg. It's hard to get your head around unless you live there for a few weeks.
- washadjeffmad 2y ago
  Most of the world didn't ditch cars, exactly. They just predate them. Car culture is recent and pretty uniquely American. I lived in a pre-car city with a lot of ~8ft lanes and "double lanes" that were converted into one-ways to accommodate modern cars and trucks.
  - rstuart4133 2y ago
    > Most of the world didn't ditch cars, exactly. They just predate them. It's true they predate them, but then so do most American cities. When the car arrived the American cities opted to expand their cities, giving everyone their own block of lawn to live on. The European cities could have expanded in the same way too. Utrecht went as far as to build freeways to make it possible. But in the end, they opted not to and Utrecht in particular turned their brand new freeways into canals. > Car culture is recent and pretty uniquely American. American certainly has it's own unique culture, but I think we are discussing a specific characteristic of that culture which it shares with other countries like Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The density of most cities in those countries is so low owning a car is mandatory. Existing without one is almost impossible. I know because live in one. Quoting a Japanese exchange student who lives with us for a while - to her surprise even with two cars getting to everywhere we had to be in an average week was a major logistical exercise. In the countries @n3storm is talking about, car ownership is completely optional.

kubb 2y ago

There's no point in explaining that. A lot of them have never been outside the country and maybe Canada. Even if they can afford to go somewhere they don't have the time. They can only imagine the world outside as a version of what they know. And everywhere they went hasn't been very different from what they have at home. They won't be able to imagine it.

Aloisius 2y ago
You're assuming a lot given HN's American demographic isn't exactly reflective of the general population. Even among the American general populace, most have traveled to a country besides Canada.
- willhslade 2y ago
  Doubt. https://www.apolloacademy.com/48-of-americans-have-a-passport/ https://www.apolloacademy.com/48-of-americans-have-a-passpor...
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    Just because only 48% of people have a current passport, doesn't mean only 48% have ever had a passport. A majority of Americans have traveled to two or more countries: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/12/most-americans-have-traveled-abroad-although-differences-among-demographic-groups-are-large/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/12/most-amer...
    - magicalhippo 2y ago
      Interesting. When I visited the US in 2003, I recall the news reporting on a study showing that more than half had never been to another country, and they stressed that that included Canada and Mexico. It became a bit of a discussion point during the ride with the those I visited.

ChocolateGod 2y ago

When I say "old", I am referring to that the layout/route was thought of centuries ago, long before the invention of the car or anything remotely close. e.g. London.

mananaysiempre 2y ago
London is somewhat unusual in that its streets are actually rather wide for a European city, due to urban planning regulations enacted after the Great Fire and (until recently) the willingness of its inhabintants to demolish historical buildings. Paris, Vienna, or Prague, for example, are generally much denser, not to mention genuinely medieval cities like Girona.
n3storm 2y ago
London is not a representation of Europe, nor Madrid. Even Paris is completely differente. Germany was full rebuild after war. So, is Europe is a mix, but roads are not the reason to not buy tractors, is utility. Tractors are for country work.

lucianbr 2y ago

The roads are smaller and older. It's just that that isn't a bad thing. And it is a bad thing for cars. It's just not a bad thing for people, because good alternatives to cars exist.