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Herzl’s zionism is simply a belief that Jewish people should buy land and live in their ancestral homeland. He wasn’t orthodox, didn’t believe God promised any

by nailer 2y ago

Herzl’s zionism is simply a belief that Jewish people should buy land and live in their ancestral homeland. He wasn’t orthodox, didn’t believe God promised anything to anyone, didn’t speak Hebrew, but after the Dreyfuss affair (usual racist fake accusation BS) started to petition Rothschild (he was denied) and then other wealthier Jewish people with more success to start buying sand dunes and swamplands for Jewish families to return to Israel. Herzl is definitely worth either reading or just studying for HN, the books are short and to the point, they dispel a lot of myths one gets from the media, and starting a country is a fairly ambitious project worth studying for any founder.

stormfather 2y ago
He also said that Jews should only hire other Jews. If I was a politician that advocated Britain is for the British, and that whites should only hire other whites so that minorities have to leave due to economic pressure, how would you view me? Or is this wrong?
- nailer 2y ago
  My own personal beliefs aren’t really relevant to the topic. To answer the question anyway: Jewish and British and French and Arabs and Ghanaians and Balinese may want to hire their own, but there’s a certain point where the rubber hits the road and you may find someone outside the group with the skills or contacts you need.
  - stormfather 2y ago
    My point is that you're presenting Herzl as if all he wanted was to legally purchase land for a Jewish state. But you left out that he advocated systemic racial discrimination to coerce another group to leave. I'm trying to ask if this would color your previously neutral and benign characterization of him.
    - nailer 2y ago
      > he advocated systemic racial discrimination to coerce another group to leave When? You haven't made that point, only discussed that Herzl said Jewish people should hire other Jewish people, which is common among all groups of people, fairly benign and was almost universal in the past.
      - stormfather 2y ago
        That is by definition systemic racial discrimination. This isn't hard to understand.
        nailer 2y ago
        As mentioned in the comment you wrote your reply to, this is incredibly common, was even more common at the time, and it’s not at all clear that the intent was to make others leave - Herzl’s main writings about Arabs living in the area was to make them rich.
volleyball 2y ago
>Herzl’s zionism is simply a belief that Jewish people should buy land and live in their ancestral homeland. Right... "We shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country ... The removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." - diaryentry from Herzl's diary 1895 > He wasn’t orthodox, didn’t believe God promised anything to anyone Back then, most of the Orthodox were anti-zionists. I dont know why you brought up Herzl anyway, since he died in 1905 and was not as representative of the modern state of Israel as compared to its other founders like David Ben-Gurion, David Ben-Gurion, and Yitzhak Shamir. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/03/israel1 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/03/israel1

by nailer 2y ago

stormfather 2y ago

He also said that Jews should only hire other Jews. If I was a politician that advocated Britain is for the British, and that whites should only hire other whites so that minorities have to leave due to economic pressure, how would you view me? Or is this wrong?

nailer 2y ago
My own personal beliefs aren’t really relevant to the topic. To answer the question anyway: Jewish and British and French and Arabs and Ghanaians and Balinese may want to hire their own, but there’s a certain point where the rubber hits the road and you may find someone outside the group with the skills or contacts you need.
- stormfather 2y ago
  My point is that you're presenting Herzl as if all he wanted was to legally purchase land for a Jewish state. But you left out that he advocated systemic racial discrimination to coerce another group to leave. I'm trying to ask if this would color your previously neutral and benign characterization of him.
  - nailer 2y ago
    > he advocated systemic racial discrimination to coerce another group to leave When? You haven't made that point, only discussed that Herzl said Jewish people should hire other Jewish people, which is common among all groups of people, fairly benign and was almost universal in the past.
    - stormfather 2y ago
      That is by definition systemic racial discrimination. This isn't hard to understand.
      - nailer 2y ago
        As mentioned in the comment you wrote your reply to, this is incredibly common, was even more common at the time, and it’s not at all clear that the intent was to make others leave - Herzl’s main writings about Arabs living in the area was to make them rich.

volleyball 2y ago

>Herzl’s zionism is simply a belief that Jewish people should buy land and live in their ancestral homeland. Right... "We shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country ... The removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." - diaryentry from Herzl's diary 1895 > He wasn’t orthodox, didn’t believe God promised anything to anyone Back then, most of the Orthodox were anti-zionists. I dont know why you brought up Herzl anyway, since he died in 1905 and was not as representative of the modern state of Israel as compared to its other founders like David Ben-Gurion, David Ben-Gurion, and Yitzhak Shamir. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/03/israel1 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/03/israel1