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> According to the White House, the number was erroneously saved during a “contact suggestion update” by Waltz’s iPhone, which one person described as the funct

> According to the White House, the number was erroneously saved during a “contact suggestion update” by Waltz’s iPhone, which one person described as the function where an iPhone algorithm adds a previously unknown number to an existing contact that it detects may be related. It's interesting that this was the cause. I'm sure we all have our own stories of how UI/UX niggles (regardless of platform or app) have led to unintended behavior. While I understand automatic suggestions can be helpful at times, when the UX doesn't clearly identify the cues that lead to the suggestion, with a way for a human to confirm it, this type of error is a likely result.

blitzar 2y ago
> iPhone algorithm adds a previously unknown number to an existing contact They must have different iPhones to me, because mine doesn't do that. If I were cynical I would say they made this up.
- zozbot234 2y ago
  Could be one of those newfangled "AI" features.
  - elijaht 2y ago
    It’s not new, been seeing this for years
- cosmic_cheese 2y ago
  It’s a real feature in first party apps (messages, mail, etc), but it’s not fully automatic. When it thinks that a number/address/etc is related to an existing contact, it’ll prompt the user to confirm or deny, and upon confirmation the info is added. Ultimately it’s up to the user.
- randallsquared 2y ago
  I don't know when they added it to iOS, but my iPhone does this. I get a text from some new number and the message includes (e.g.) "Hey this is Tom." and a notice right in Messages says it "found" a contact that this may be and asks if I want to add the number to that contact. I could imagine having this happen correctly a few times in a row might make one trust that it knows what it's doing.
  - tsimionescu 2y ago
    Absolutely, and it's generally OK to trust it. I wouldn't trust it with my bank details though (i.e. while I might send bank details to my life partner, I definitely wouldn't send them to someone my iPhone thinks might be my partner). And I DEFINITELY wouldn't trust it with military operation details.
- selfhoster 2y ago
  [flagged]
- more_corn 2y ago
  Really? I think the text of the pop up is “new number found for CONTACT NAME. Add it to contact?”
  - lukan 2y ago
    But does it extract this information from a email where a different contact was included? That part sounds weird to me (but possible).
    - sjy 2y ago
      The article says an email including Goldberg’s signature block was copied and pasted into a text message from Hughes.
      - lukan 2y ago
        I read that. But it would still be Goldbergs signature block. So is apple so "dumb" to just take this number and assume it belongs to the email adress contact? To be confirmed with a single touch? That would be weird to me.
        brookst 2y ago
        It is for sure a terrible design for a top secret communications system. For a consumer platform, it makes some sense, and the prompt is supposed to be “hey you might want to do this”, and the user can decide if it makes sense. I’ve used an iphone since they came out, have seen this prompt like twice, and got it right both times. But I’m not a national security advisor or anything so maybe it’s more clear to me.
- refurb 2y ago
  The iPhone contacts app is an absolute cluster of an app in terms of how it manages adding contacts (or allows other apps to add contacts). Years ago I had my nicely arranges contacts in place, then added Gmail and it upload contacts so now they were all duplicated. Then when I dug into it, I realize you have have folders of different contacts, but depending on the view they are shown as combined. Then add on top Gmail keeps asking me if I want to update someone's contacts from an email they sent me. I click yes, but it keeps coming up even though their contact info doesn't change (what?). Then if I try to copy a message from iMessage, it will randomly assume a number is someone's phone number and ask me if I want to create a new contact (what?). If my fingers were fatter it would be easier to click "yes" and end up with a non-phone number added to some person's contacts. I only trust the contacts that I add manually, everything else is suspect.
xtiansimon 2y ago
> “…iPhone algorithm adds a previously unknown number…” What?
- chneu 2y ago
  They're lying. This is up there with "I was hacked" when getting caught replying to porn accounts.
  - xtiansimon 2y ago
    Pants on fire just doesn't seem to cover it. It's just that Google Voice app on iPhone did something weird in a recent call. I hadn't been using it very much at all, and about a month ago I got a notice from Google saying, Use it or lose it. Ok. So I use it and the suggestion thing threw me for a loop. On my phone's 120 mm screen, if you switch to the keypad, but before you type a number, the top of the screen says "Suggestions". But I didn't see that. I'm looking back and forth between a phone number in an email signature and the on screen keypad. Once you start typing the number, "Suggestions" goes away. So I finish typing and look up to see the name of a personal contact (never called from Google Voice, btw). I had to type the number again I was so confused. I was thinking, that's what you get for free IP phone number and free app. Now I read the OP and think, now my iPhone is going to start acting like crap too? Funny to think it, but I wonder if these Gov peeps are using the free versions or if they pay for these services?
3eb7988a1663 2y ago
I have not followed the case too closely, but it seems like the timeline was roughly: - deny anything wrong happened - Atlantic is a liar - the leak might have happened, but nothing secret was shared - ok fine, secret military information was shared - here is an analysis that says it was the phone at fault, not human error I have trouble believing anything except butt covering at play. When you are repeatedly caught lying, I do not immediately believe the latest story iteration, even if it is plausible.
- D-Coder 2y ago
  DARVO: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.
- BLKNSLVR 2y ago
  I think the most accurate thing Trump has said so far in 47th Presidency was "everything's computer" about the Tesla dash. Almost everything else out of his mouth, at least towards the media, has existed somewhere on the scale between 'large clump of BS wrapped around a tiny nugget of truth' and 'bald-faced lie'. And when fairly obvious lies are repeated, the rest of what is said by himself and the rest of his administration retains the stink of the same taint.
- fransje26 2y ago
  > here is an analysis that says it was the phone at fault, not human error > I have trouble believing anything except butt covering at play. No, I did not cheat. We just happened to be hanging around without undergarments, and, you know, we had been eating bananas, and somehow some banana peel fell on the floor, and then I slipped, and grabbed the first thing I could hold on to, and that's how we both accidentally fell on the couch, and then the dog got excited and jumped on us to play, and that's how I unvoluntarily got jump-humped into this unfortunate event..
maest 2y ago
> According to the White House, the number was erroneously saved during a “contact suggestion update” by Waltz’s iPhone, which one person described as the function where an iPhone algorithm adds a previously unknown number to an existing contact that it detects may be related. I'm sorry, how is that knowable? Is there a log of iPhone users interactions that shows this? Or is it the case that investigators pointed to the wrong number being saved in Waltz' phone and Waltz replied: "Oh, the only explanation is that I must have misclicked when my phone asked me to update my contacts."
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Sure, but the use case of Signal isn't for secret communications, so the stakes of adding the wrong person should be a lot lower in normal use. If it was intended as a secure communications platform for government use, they wouldn't be using phone numbers and an address book that can have incorrect information. I did read Signal was being used in the military etc, but only as a notification system that they should check their actually secure communications thing.

blitzar 2y ago

> iPhone algorithm adds a previously unknown number to an existing contact They must have different iPhones to me, because mine doesn't do that. If I were cynical I would say they made this up.

zozbot234 2y ago
Could be one of those newfangled "AI" features.
- elijaht 2y ago
  It’s not new, been seeing this for years
cosmic_cheese 2y ago
It’s a real feature in first party apps (messages, mail, etc), but it’s not fully automatic. When it thinks that a number/address/etc is related to an existing contact, it’ll prompt the user to confirm or deny, and upon confirmation the info is added. Ultimately it’s up to the user.
randallsquared 2y ago
I don't know when they added it to iOS, but my iPhone does this. I get a text from some new number and the message includes (e.g.) "Hey this is Tom." and a notice right in Messages says it "found" a contact that this may be and asks if I want to add the number to that contact. I could imagine having this happen correctly a few times in a row might make one trust that it knows what it's doing.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  Absolutely, and it's generally OK to trust it. I wouldn't trust it with my bank details though (i.e. while I might send bank details to my life partner, I definitely wouldn't send them to someone my iPhone thinks might be my partner). And I DEFINITELY wouldn't trust it with military operation details.
selfhoster 2y ago
[flagged]
more_corn 2y ago
Really? I think the text of the pop up is “new number found for CONTACT NAME. Add it to contact?”
- lukan 2y ago
  But does it extract this information from a email where a different contact was included? That part sounds weird to me (but possible).
  - sjy 2y ago
    The article says an email including Goldberg’s signature block was copied and pasted into a text message from Hughes.
    - lukan 2y ago
      I read that. But it would still be Goldbergs signature block. So is apple so "dumb" to just take this number and assume it belongs to the email adress contact? To be confirmed with a single touch? That would be weird to me.
      - brookst 2y ago
        It is for sure a terrible design for a top secret communications system. For a consumer platform, it makes some sense, and the prompt is supposed to be “hey you might want to do this”, and the user can decide if it makes sense. I’ve used an iphone since they came out, have seen this prompt like twice, and got it right both times. But I’m not a national security advisor or anything so maybe it’s more clear to me.
refurb 2y ago
The iPhone contacts app is an absolute cluster of an app in terms of how it manages adding contacts (or allows other apps to add contacts). Years ago I had my nicely arranges contacts in place, then added Gmail and it upload contacts so now they were all duplicated. Then when I dug into it, I realize you have have folders of different contacts, but depending on the view they are shown as combined. Then add on top Gmail keeps asking me if I want to update someone's contacts from an email they sent me. I click yes, but it keeps coming up even though their contact info doesn't change (what?). Then if I try to copy a message from iMessage, it will randomly assume a number is someone's phone number and ask me if I want to create a new contact (what?). If my fingers were fatter it would be easier to click "yes" and end up with a non-phone number added to some person's contacts. I only trust the contacts that I add manually, everything else is suspect.

xtiansimon 2y ago

> “…iPhone algorithm adds a previously unknown number…” What?

chneu 2y ago
They're lying. This is up there with "I was hacked" when getting caught replying to porn accounts.
- xtiansimon 2y ago
  Pants on fire just doesn't seem to cover it. It's just that Google Voice app on iPhone did something weird in a recent call. I hadn't been using it very much at all, and about a month ago I got a notice from Google saying, Use it or lose it. Ok. So I use it and the suggestion thing threw me for a loop. On my phone's 120 mm screen, if you switch to the keypad, but before you type a number, the top of the screen says "Suggestions". But I didn't see that. I'm looking back and forth between a phone number in an email signature and the on screen keypad. Once you start typing the number, "Suggestions" goes away. So I finish typing and look up to see the name of a personal contact (never called from Google Voice, btw). I had to type the number again I was so confused. I was thinking, that's what you get for free IP phone number and free app. Now I read the OP and think, now my iPhone is going to start acting like crap too? Funny to think it, but I wonder if these Gov peeps are using the free versions or if they pay for these services?

3eb7988a1663 2y ago

I have not followed the case too closely, but it seems like the timeline was roughly: - deny anything wrong happened - Atlantic is a liar - the leak might have happened, but nothing secret was shared - ok fine, secret military information was shared - here is an analysis that says it was the phone at fault, not human error I have trouble believing anything except butt covering at play. When you are repeatedly caught lying, I do not immediately believe the latest story iteration, even if it is plausible.

D-Coder 2y ago
DARVO: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.
BLKNSLVR 2y ago
I think the most accurate thing Trump has said so far in 47th Presidency was "everything's computer" about the Tesla dash. Almost everything else out of his mouth, at least towards the media, has existed somewhere on the scale between 'large clump of BS wrapped around a tiny nugget of truth' and 'bald-faced lie'. And when fairly obvious lies are repeated, the rest of what is said by himself and the rest of his administration retains the stink of the same taint.
fransje26 2y ago
> here is an analysis that says it was the phone at fault, not human error > I have trouble believing anything except butt covering at play. No, I did not cheat. We just happened to be hanging around without undergarments, and, you know, we had been eating bananas, and somehow some banana peel fell on the floor, and then I slipped, and grabbed the first thing I could hold on to, and that's how we both accidentally fell on the couch, and then the dog got excited and jumped on us to play, and that's how I unvoluntarily got jump-humped into this unfortunate event..

maest 2y ago

> According to the White House, the number was erroneously saved during a “contact suggestion update” by Waltz’s iPhone, which one person described as the function where an iPhone algorithm adds a previously unknown number to an existing contact that it detects may be related. I'm sorry, how is that knowable? Is there a log of iPhone users interactions that shows this? Or is it the case that investigators pointed to the wrong number being saved in Waltz' phone and Waltz replied: "Oh, the only explanation is that I must have misclicked when my phone asked me to update my contacts."

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

Sure, but the use case of Signal isn't for secret communications, so the stakes of adding the wrong person should be a lot lower in normal use. If it was intended as a secure communications platform for government use, they wouldn't be using phone numbers and an address book that can have incorrect information. I did read Signal was being used in the military etc, but only as a notification system that they should check their actually secure communications thing.