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The classic issue of who made the first tongs could be inserted here, with some hammering. (It's a classic legend. There is an Islamic legend that Allah gave t
by Animats 2y ago
The classic issue of who made the first tongs could be inserted here, with some hammering.
(It's a classic legend. There is an Islamic legend that Allah gave the first pair of tongs to the first blacksmith because you need a pair of tongs to make a pair of tongs. There's a Nordic legend that Thor made the first tongs. In reality, somebody probably used a bent piece of green wood, which didn't last long, but could be easily replaced.)
His piece "Vibe Coding, Final Word"[1] is relevant right now.
[1] https://funcall.blogspot.com/2025/04/vibe-coding-final-word.html https://funcall.blogspot.com/2025/04/vibe-coding-final-word....
- pmarreck 2y agoThat's not remotely "vibe coding" though. Vibe coding would be like using Claude Code or Codeium Windsurf with a recent model. Something that does the code edits for you and optionally lets you code-review them first to approve/deny. Not copy-pasting GPT4o-produced bupkis.
- gsf_emergency 2y agoAccording to "official" legend it was the brothers Brokkr & Eitri who made Mjolnir, though I couldn't find anything about the tongs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokkr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokkr Re: "funcall's vibe coding findings", it makes sense that human-style lisp (/tongs) would be too nonlinear for LLMs (or gods like Thor) to generate? Edit: but in line with latter-day retcons it also makes sense that Thor would get credit for something good that Loki did
- shirleyquirk 2y agoIt doesn’t make any sense that you’d need tongs to make tongs; just hold the workpiece. Maybe you cant draw out the reins quite so much on your first one. (Ok im a modern blacksmith that assumes the existence of rolled bar as a source material) But a hammer! How do you make a hammer without a hammer?
- WillAdams 2y agoFind a chunk of raw metal (possibly meteoric iron, more likely copper) of a suitable size/shape, find a tree, using a sharp rock, saw off a suitable branch, split it open, insert the metal chunk, using vines or the intestines of a small animal secure it in place --- if desired, allow the tree to grow around the inclusion for a couple of years, then use a sharp rock to saw off the branch at a suitable length.
- PaulRobinson 2y agoWhitworth [0] showed that you can make a more precise tool than the one you use to make it. This means you "evolve" towards tongs, or screws, or high-precision calipers, or anything else you want to make, if you use the right process. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Whitworth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Whitworth
- WillAdams 2y agoSimon Winchester did a book on this: _The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World_ (alternately title _Exactly_) https://www.goodreads.com/work/editions/56364115-the-perfectionists https://www.goodreads.com/work/editions/56364115-the-perfect... and for further technical details see: _Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy_ by Wayne R. Moore https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262130806/foundations-of-mechanical-accuracy/ https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262130806/foundations-of-mechan...
- bsder 2y agoPlease don't recommend "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" without also providing a source. The prices people want for it are absurd if it is even available.