3 ms·

Which rules would be different in particular, you think?

by soneca 2y ago

Cerium 2y ago
The information landscape has changed a bit - several large states now require posting clear salary bands, which many companies comply with in good faith. Some like Netflix post something useless (eg: "The range for this role is $100,000 - $720,000").
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  That isn’t useless, the $100k bottom number provides a lot of information to labor sellers.
- packetslave 2y ago
  Netflix is a weird case, in that they let new hires pick the mix of stock vs. cash in their total compensation. Since the CA law requires posting the cash salary in the job offer, it really can be that wide of a range.
- zerr 2y ago
  When given the range, overshoot the max so they can negotiate you down close to the max.
  - ZoomZoomZoom 2y ago
    "Why do we need a candidate that can't read or do basic math?" Also, usually the high bound is set to catch desperate overqualifieds into the job competing process, not to be actually paid. YMMV, speaking from experience in non-US job market culture.
    - zerr 2y ago
      It's not about the basic math but negotiating if they can do better, also saying that they shouldn't even bother proposing you something in the lower part of the range. I deal with non-US shops as well, it is surprising how many of them can and do pay US rates when asked.
neilv 2y ago
Sorry, that was a confusing choice of term by me, when the article already used the term "rule". I mean the courtship dynamics. When it's a buyer's market -- or the buyers think it is -- some of the candidate tactics are going to play differently. Even the old advice that, once the company decides they want you, that changes the dynamics, and now opens up negotiation. The dynamics maybe don't change as much as they used to. If candidate A doesn't take the offer, B, C, D, etc., are lined up and waiting, and probably not going anywhere. I suspect that a lot of techbros who only know/remember the sellers market of a few years ago are going to be hit by the pendulum swing, when a lot of employers will be similarly cocky and fickle.
- reset0684 2y ago
  Midwest, not Silicon Valley, but that's my current experience. I've already got a job and just got an offer which would be a small pay cut. So, I told them I'm excited about the work, etc but I just can't take a pay cut. They remained firm that they couldn't budge on salary even a little. Then remained firm as I asked for a signing bonus (denied) and reduced hours (denied). This company doesn't do stock at all and they've already got unlimited PTO so no room to negotiate there. Meanwhile, their interview feedback indicated I did very well. They unanimously wanted me, and I slightly exceeded their technical expectations for the role. Seems tougher than I remember from before covid. (Throwaway since I don't want this tied to my name for my current or future employer to find.)
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Yea, this has been pretty much my experience through years of job searching. Very rare to find a company willing to negotiate.
  - angra_mainyu 2y ago
    Can agree that right now the market is tough. Some years ago there were job posts left and right, salaries were high and hiring was smooth - now there are comparatively fewer jobs posted, salaries are almost half of what it was before, and many don't even write back. Many companies are even turning away from remote work. It used to be very doable to find a job in the US from Europe, now everyone is demanding you have work authorization and can be in the US.

Which rules would be different in particular, you think?

by soneca 2y ago

Which rules would be different in particular, you think?

The information landscape has changed a bit - several large states now require posting clear salary bands, which many companies comply with in good faith. Some like Netflix post something useless (eg: "The range for this role is $100,000 - $720,000").

lotsofpulp 2y ago
That isn’t useless, the $100k bottom number provides a lot of information to labor sellers.
packetslave 2y ago
Netflix is a weird case, in that they let new hires pick the mix of stock vs. cash in their total compensation. Since the CA law requires posting the cash salary in the job offer, it really can be that wide of a range.
zerr 2y ago
When given the range, overshoot the max so they can negotiate you down close to the max.
- ZoomZoomZoom 2y ago
  "Why do we need a candidate that can't read or do basic math?" Also, usually the high bound is set to catch desperate overqualifieds into the job competing process, not to be actually paid. YMMV, speaking from experience in non-US job market culture.
  - zerr 2y ago
    It's not about the basic math but negotiating if they can do better, also saying that they shouldn't even bother proposing you something in the lower part of the range. I deal with non-US shops as well, it is surprising how many of them can and do pay US rates when asked.

neilv 2y ago

Sorry, that was a confusing choice of term by me, when the article already used the term "rule". I mean the courtship dynamics. When it's a buyer's market -- or the buyers think it is -- some of the candidate tactics are going to play differently. Even the old advice that, once the company decides they want you, that changes the dynamics, and now opens up negotiation. The dynamics maybe don't change as much as they used to. If candidate A doesn't take the offer, B, C, D, etc., are lined up and waiting, and probably not going anywhere. I suspect that a lot of techbros who only know/remember the sellers market of a few years ago are going to be hit by the pendulum swing, when a lot of employers will be similarly cocky and fickle.

reset0684 2y ago
Midwest, not Silicon Valley, but that's my current experience. I've already got a job and just got an offer which would be a small pay cut. So, I told them I'm excited about the work, etc but I just can't take a pay cut. They remained firm that they couldn't budge on salary even a little. Then remained firm as I asked for a signing bonus (denied) and reduced hours (denied). This company doesn't do stock at all and they've already got unlimited PTO so no room to negotiate there. Meanwhile, their interview feedback indicated I did very well. They unanimously wanted me, and I slightly exceeded their technical expectations for the role. Seems tougher than I remember from before covid. (Throwaway since I don't want this tied to my name for my current or future employer to find.)
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Yea, this has been pretty much my experience through years of job searching. Very rare to find a company willing to negotiate.
- angra_mainyu 2y ago
  Can agree that right now the market is tough. Some years ago there were job posts left and right, salaries were high and hiring was smooth - now there are comparatively fewer jobs posted, salaries are almost half of what it was before, and many don't even write back. Many companies are even turning away from remote work. It used to be very doable to find a job in the US from Europe, now everyone is demanding you have work authorization and can be in the US.