3 ms·

Don't come to Victoria. Go to Vancouver instead.

by spitfire 14y ago

hluska 14y ago
Thanks for the advice! Why do you say that?
- spitfire 14y ago
  Cost of living is extremely high(some of the highest in Canada), while salaries are unreasonably depressed. If you're a skilled developer/bizdev/etc you'll be offered between 1/3rd and 1/2 of what you could earn in Vancouver. Victoria is a very conservative culture - people are viewed as labour (In the economic sense, a cost to be minimized). This isn't helped by the fact that the average age is 45. I know of half a dozen developers who moved away and doubled or more their salary.
  - pasbesoin 14y ago
    Were you the person who commented a while back on a few people heading off to Courtenay? Not that that's necessarily recommended (200+ km up the coast, pretty remote including culturally, and small potatoes IIRC), but to stay on the island while avoiding Victoria's costs? And/or some people moving into the island's interior? My apology if not, but I seem to recall someone commenting on developers relocating to different parts of Vancouver Island.
    - hluska 14y ago
      I don't recall that particular comment, though I know that some people in Campbell River are trying hard to turn CR into something of a tech centre. There's a really great buzz on the island right now...
      - pasbesoin 14y ago
        Campbell River sounds right. Google Maps updated their imagery, splatting a big bunch of cloud over CR so that I missed it, initially, while refreshing my memory. I thought it might have been spitfire who commented to that effect. But that was some months ago; I guess I could wade back through history. I liked Victoria's ambiance when I visited, but the friend I was visiting there (already half a decade ago) commented repeatedly to the effect of it being/becoming a retirement community. With lots of well-off retirees to bid up prices. Does the island really have enough going on elsewhere to create a general buzz?
        mock 14y ago
        The retirement community aspect has shifted somewhat; downtown is now younger and a bit more vibrant with all the condos that have gone up (and continue to be built). $300k will get you a tiny condo - $500k will get you something you actually like. Houses within walking distance of downtown (north park, which isn't the best neighborhood, but isn't the worst either) go for around $600k. Most young families are buying in Langford or further out where money goes further than that. Victoria is definitely doing more tech-wise that Campbell River or Courtenay, in that there are more tech companies, more startups, and more tech jobs. As with anywhere outside of a major hub, you're going to have to do a lot of leg work to find those jobs - and to find ones that pay well.
        spitfire 14y ago
        Victoria is absolutely beautiful. Bar none. But it's unofficial slogan is "Welcome to Victoria. For the newly wed and nearly dead!". Unfortunately, the newly wed can no longer afford 9x the average income to buy an average house. It is a very grey town. As you've mentioned lots of well off individuals bidding up prices and a very conservative, risk averse climate. As for the island creating a buzz? I don't think so, not in the competing with SV or NYC sense. I could certainly see the island serving a niche ecosystem though. In fact, if the media could get over itself I think they could have a big part to play in growing that sort of environment.
    - spitfire 14y ago
      I might have been, I'm not sure. But I do know several people who have moved up island citing low salary, cost of living and family lifestyle for the move. HN ate one of my earlier comments. So I'll try and rewrite it here from memory. Developer salaries are very depressed here in Victoria. You will often see "Senior" positions from $70K, more for large places like Abebooks (Amazon). Those go unfilled for months at a time. The friends I have that have moved upisland now earn > $140K by simply computing once a week to Vancouver for facetime. A recent sucessful immigrant friend from europe said to me (paraphrasing) "Everyone here has a trust fund and spends all their time trying to screw each other over". This is absolutely true. I know of one guy who had a modest exit, and now views programmers as labour - he treats them like shit and pays $30K for php/ruby developers. If you interviewed with him, he would make comments about outsourcing to india. As Patio11 might say, a pathological employer. But the point to be made is that I'm not surprised by this behaviour - I've encountered it myself several times. This is Victoria in a nutshell. It simply is not ready to respect talent and pay it well in order to build thriving businesses and an ecosystem. Sorry I'm so negative, but I'd like to see people succeed in the easiest fashion possible. Perhaps we need more meetups to start building networks of people building things? Housing/office space will be cheap sooner now that the mortgage rules are changing.
      - mock 14y ago
        Actually, that's another good point. There are a lot of people working remotely here, as it's relatively quick to get to both Seattle and Vancouver (under an hour by float plane, and float planes don't have bullshit security lines). You can even give a little bit of a discount vs NYC or SV wages and come out ahead of what you'd do locally. I did that for a while, and I have a couple of friends doing it now for whom it's working out well. Once again, it's a matter of waiting for the good opportunities - unlike bigger hubs, there isn't the same sophistication in knowing who and how to hire in employers, nor the same raw demand for talent that lets someone walk out the door and be hired before they hit the street. I'd definitely be interested in some sort of meetup, if such a thing were going to happen... Also, don't get me started on local angels (both Victoria and Vancouver)... :-(
        14y ago
  - hluska 14y ago
    I can't thank you enough for this - thanks very much!!!

Don't come to Victoria. Go to Vancouver instead.

hluska 14y ago

Thanks for the advice! Why do you say that?

spitfire 14y ago
Cost of living is extremely high(some of the highest in Canada), while salaries are unreasonably depressed. If you're a skilled developer/bizdev/etc you'll be offered between 1/3rd and 1/2 of what you could earn in Vancouver. Victoria is a very conservative culture - people are viewed as labour (In the economic sense, a cost to be minimized). This isn't helped by the fact that the average age is 45. I know of half a dozen developers who moved away and doubled or more their salary.
- pasbesoin 14y ago
  Were you the person who commented a while back on a few people heading off to Courtenay? Not that that's necessarily recommended (200+ km up the coast, pretty remote including culturally, and small potatoes IIRC), but to stay on the island while avoiding Victoria's costs? And/or some people moving into the island's interior? My apology if not, but I seem to recall someone commenting on developers relocating to different parts of Vancouver Island.
  - hluska 14y ago
    I don't recall that particular comment, though I know that some people in Campbell River are trying hard to turn CR into something of a tech centre. There's a really great buzz on the island right now...
    - pasbesoin 14y ago
      Campbell River sounds right. Google Maps updated their imagery, splatting a big bunch of cloud over CR so that I missed it, initially, while refreshing my memory. I thought it might have been spitfire who commented to that effect. But that was some months ago; I guess I could wade back through history. I liked Victoria's ambiance when I visited, but the friend I was visiting there (already half a decade ago) commented repeatedly to the effect of it being/becoming a retirement community. With lots of well-off retirees to bid up prices. Does the island really have enough going on elsewhere to create a general buzz?
      - mock 14y ago
        The retirement community aspect has shifted somewhat; downtown is now younger and a bit more vibrant with all the condos that have gone up (and continue to be built). $300k will get you a tiny condo - $500k will get you something you actually like. Houses within walking distance of downtown (north park, which isn't the best neighborhood, but isn't the worst either) go for around $600k. Most young families are buying in Langford or further out where money goes further than that. Victoria is definitely doing more tech-wise that Campbell River or Courtenay, in that there are more tech companies, more startups, and more tech jobs. As with anywhere outside of a major hub, you're going to have to do a lot of leg work to find those jobs - and to find ones that pay well.
      - spitfire 14y ago
        Victoria is absolutely beautiful. Bar none. But it's unofficial slogan is "Welcome to Victoria. For the newly wed and nearly dead!". Unfortunately, the newly wed can no longer afford 9x the average income to buy an average house. It is a very grey town. As you've mentioned lots of well off individuals bidding up prices and a very conservative, risk averse climate. As for the island creating a buzz? I don't think so, not in the competing with SV or NYC sense. I could certainly see the island serving a niche ecosystem though. In fact, if the media could get over itself I think they could have a big part to play in growing that sort of environment.
  - spitfire 14y ago
    I might have been, I'm not sure. But I do know several people who have moved up island citing low salary, cost of living and family lifestyle for the move. HN ate one of my earlier comments. So I'll try and rewrite it here from memory. Developer salaries are very depressed here in Victoria. You will often see "Senior" positions from $70K, more for large places like Abebooks (Amazon). Those go unfilled for months at a time. The friends I have that have moved upisland now earn > $140K by simply computing once a week to Vancouver for facetime. A recent sucessful immigrant friend from europe said to me (paraphrasing) "Everyone here has a trust fund and spends all their time trying to screw each other over". This is absolutely true. I know of one guy who had a modest exit, and now views programmers as labour - he treats them like shit and pays $30K for php/ruby developers. If you interviewed with him, he would make comments about outsourcing to india. As Patio11 might say, a pathological employer. But the point to be made is that I'm not surprised by this behaviour - I've encountered it myself several times. This is Victoria in a nutshell. It simply is not ready to respect talent and pay it well in order to build thriving businesses and an ecosystem. Sorry I'm so negative, but I'd like to see people succeed in the easiest fashion possible. Perhaps we need more meetups to start building networks of people building things? Housing/office space will be cheap sooner now that the mortgage rules are changing.
    - mock 14y ago
      Actually, that's another good point. There are a lot of people working remotely here, as it's relatively quick to get to both Seattle and Vancouver (under an hour by float plane, and float planes don't have bullshit security lines). You can even give a little bit of a discount vs NYC or SV wages and come out ahead of what you'd do locally. I did that for a while, and I have a couple of friends doing it now for whom it's working out well. Once again, it's a matter of waiting for the good opportunities - unlike bigger hubs, there isn't the same sophistication in knowing who and how to hire in employers, nor the same raw demand for talent that lets someone walk out the door and be hired before they hit the street. I'd definitely be interested in some sort of meetup, if such a thing were going to happen... Also, don't get me started on local angels (both Victoria and Vancouver)... :-(
      - 14y ago
- hluska 14y ago
  I can't thank you enough for this - thanks very much!!!