4 ms·

In the 1980s we also downloaded software from TV

71 points by spzb 2y ago

Dwedit 2y ago
There was also a backup system for PCs that used a TV interface card, and you connected your computer to a VCR to hold the data. Data was stored in white scanlines on top of a black background. Probably not the most efficient way to store data over NTSC (or PAL) video.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  There's more fidelity in the luma (intensity) than in the chroma (color) of NTSC anyway, so it's probably not that bad. Also avoiding color means avoiding crosstalk and fringing.
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  Danmere Backer. IIRC I paid £35 for it.
  - rzzzt 2y ago
    ARVID was another VHS backup solution: https://jacobfilipp.com/arvid-vhs/ https://jacobfilipp.com/arvid-vhs/
selcuka 2y ago
Also from the same web site: https://newslttrs.com/yes-in-the-1980s-we-downloaded-games-from-the-radio/ https://newslttrs.com/yes-in-the-1980s-we-downloaded-games-f...
- b3lvedere 2y ago
  Yes we did. Was quite fun to see a program working once you recorded it from the radio and played it back on your Spectrum. Took some conversion though. Some also used CB and other forms of radio for downloading lots of stuff.
jmann99999 2y ago
For those in the UK at the time, how was the code consumed? It sounds like the BBC Micro was somehow hooked up to the same "cable" as a TV. Is that right? Did it decode the data automatically, or did programmers at home have to build something on top of it? It just sounds incredibly ingenious on both ends. First, to invent the process and second, to use the data. I'd appreciate any knowledge that can help with the latter.
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  EDIT: Sorry! I answered without first reading the article. What I'm talking about below is different from TFA. You could record the audio to an audio cassette tape. If you had a good enough cassette deck, you could use acoustic coupling (holding up the tape deck to the TV speaker). The BBC Micro had a 7-pin DIN socket for audio in/out and remote control of an external tape deck. https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&sca_esv=6a81f2bd04fd845e&sxsrf=AHTn8zogNYErzoBCgDp90TrBLcOqBob3kw:1744072500781&q=acorn+electron+din+3.5mm&udm=2&fbs=ABzOT_A-D3gqhGpKey3m541in_a4RKm-RwWvgUIJdCbZIh7nJCdPb2DIcSFzgf9bdDlYgvfQ3veA-JY_fEXVPFCnuk1iYmgChaZIsAocfzN7GM_RP2d84f-slJ16L64I77fndVMJ53XlEmhkP3XkAzvqHAkD8Inxr3nV3GGsKQgjA-1YE3rklaM13OsvhKECiOAxdBul4FbWZdfpEcnmmMPmqcYJlACu6HVEP7JH1QAtTxUBC2AXxEc&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhovyumMeMAxU4DDQIHaV8DEoQtKgLegQIEhAB&biw=448&bih=851&dpr=2.25 https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&sca_e...
  - jmann99999 2y ago
    Thanks for that! That makes sense and is very cool. In the US in the 80s we did something similar from the radio (the UK probably did too). So, I assume it was a similar principle. Love it.
- shakna 2y ago
  The video of the Four Buffs might help you understand this better. [0] There was an extra cable, containing a photo diode, that you just stuck to the screen itself. [0] https://youtu.be/xxo1Gs46ti0?si=fqPIaxaHGFFFJmpF https://youtu.be/xxo1Gs46ti0?si=fqPIaxaHGFFFJmpF
  - deleted 2y ago
tech234a 2y ago
As a more recent example of a similar concept, TiVo would distribute guide data to their DVRs using encoded video broadcast during overnight Paid Programming time slots. The practice ran from about 1999 to 2016. Around 2016, TiVo discontinued support for guide data updates for their first-generation Series1 DVRs. I couldn't find much information about these broadcasts online, though someone did post a clip of one from 2003 [1], there are a few copies of more recent introduction and conclusion animations [2], and there is some information about them on Wikipedia [3]. It could be a fun project to try to decode it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfUgT2YoPzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfUgT2YoPzI [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnu97CHDrYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnu97CHDrYI [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infomercial#TiVo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infomercial#TiVo
- trollbridge 2y ago
  Some of us bought “lifetime” guide data subscriptions. It was rather irritating when “lifetime” actually meant “17 years”.
  - jandrese 1y ago
    You still get guide data if you hook up an Ethernet jack and let it download data online. You need a USB Ethernet adapter, but even a cheap one is fine. I remember there was even a slot (I think it was PCI electrically?) on the gen 1 TiVos you could buy a real ethernet card for and then cut a slot in the case to run the cable out. That was a long time ago. I can't imagine there are that many Gen 1 TiVos still in use. I think they were SD only. Certainly don't support ATSC, so you would have to have a compatible converter box if you have it hooked up to an antenna.
    - trollbridge 1y ago
      Yeah, I had one of the original Ethernet-converted TiVos, made by my roommate at the time who hand-soldered the debug port to ISA adapter from a blank PCB and a bag of parts. We rooted it, put an NE-2000 card in it, and then didn't need our home phone line anymore. (Also tossed an 80GB WD drive in it to replace the pathetic 20GB it came with.) Network-connected download of the guide data stopped working a number of years ago. I was still using mine connected to basic cable, which still had standard-def channels. (And yes, the ATSC to NTSC converter boxes could be persuaded to work.) Eventually, something like an HDHomeRun setup is a lot easier... but nothing will ever replace the "feel" of the TiVo remote. Particularly the 15-second skip button!
spc476 2y ago
Here's a recent attempt to load code via video recordings of a TV show from the 80s. It wasn't an easy task. From the Youtube channel Retro Recipies: Decoding A Program Sent From The Past: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezkfYTN6EQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezkfYTN6EQ Did We Decode A Program Sent From The Past?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRcs_TUpQ6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRcs_TUpQ6g ACTUALLY Receiving A Program Sent From The Past!:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm0EACgCbM0&t=1203s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm0EACgCbM0&t=1203s
- spzb 2y ago
  That’s exactly the sort of thing I was hoping someone would have done. Thanks for sharing!
jccalhoun 2y ago
I remember for a short time Computer Chronicle would have a segment where they flashed what looked like static on the screen to transmit programs. You had to have some device to capture it and send it to a computer. Edit: It looks like it was the followup to Computer Chronicles: Net Cafe https://cyborganthropology.com/TV_Modem https://cyborganthropology.com/TV_Modem
NoSalt 1y ago
I must say that I was more interested in his Mazinga action figure on the desk. I had a larger one, Shogun Warrior, when I was a kid, and I miss that toy.
bcrl 1y ago
Back in the early 1990s I recall working on a system that downloaded Usenet news feeds over satellite. I worked for a local sysop at the time, and due to high long distance costs in Canada it was tremendously more cost effective than transporting a similar amount of bandwidth over leased lines. The rural area I lived in was only fed with copper T1 lines until ~1999 when a local group finally convinced the incumbent to install fiber with the promise of over $1 million in business from the local municipalities, schools and hospitals. Residential and business ADSL was purely a side effect of that effort. We didn't get new DSLAMs with limited VDSL2 service until summer of 2014, and it still took them a couple of years to fix issues with the copper and qualify more than a handful of lines.
urtie 1y ago
This reminds me of the Basicode system, which transmitted cross platform programs over the radio... and in the Netherlands, some of the programs could then be checked against the checksummed program listings on Teletext...

71 points by spzb 2y ago

There was also a backup system for PCs that used a TV interface card, and you connected your computer to a VCR to hold the data. Data was stored in white scanlines on top of a black background. Probably not the most efficient way to store data over NTSC (or PAL) video.

actionfromafar 2y ago
There's more fidelity in the luma (intensity) than in the chroma (color) of NTSC anyway, so it's probably not that bad. Also avoiding color means avoiding crosstalk and fringing.
rahimnathwani 2y ago
Danmere Backer. IIRC I paid £35 for it.
- rzzzt 2y ago
  ARVID was another VHS backup solution: https://jacobfilipp.com/arvid-vhs/ https://jacobfilipp.com/arvid-vhs/

selcuka 2y ago

Also from the same web site: https://newslttrs.com/yes-in-the-1980s-we-downloaded-games-from-the-radio/ https://newslttrs.com/yes-in-the-1980s-we-downloaded-games-f...

b3lvedere 2y ago
Yes we did. Was quite fun to see a program working once you recorded it from the radio and played it back on your Spectrum. Took some conversion though. Some also used CB and other forms of radio for downloading lots of stuff.

jmann99999 2y ago

For those in the UK at the time, how was the code consumed? It sounds like the BBC Micro was somehow hooked up to the same "cable" as a TV. Is that right? Did it decode the data automatically, or did programmers at home have to build something on top of it? It just sounds incredibly ingenious on both ends. First, to invent the process and second, to use the data. I'd appreciate any knowledge that can help with the latter.

rahimnathwani 2y ago
EDIT: Sorry! I answered without first reading the article. What I'm talking about below is different from TFA. You could record the audio to an audio cassette tape. If you had a good enough cassette deck, you could use acoustic coupling (holding up the tape deck to the TV speaker). The BBC Micro had a 7-pin DIN socket for audio in/out and remote control of an external tape deck. https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&sca_esv=6a81f2bd04fd845e&sxsrf=AHTn8zogNYErzoBCgDp90TrBLcOqBob3kw:1744072500781&q=acorn+electron+din+3.5mm&udm=2&fbs=ABzOT_A-D3gqhGpKey3m541in_a4RKm-RwWvgUIJdCbZIh7nJCdPb2DIcSFzgf9bdDlYgvfQ3veA-JY_fEXVPFCnuk1iYmgChaZIsAocfzN7GM_RP2d84f-slJ16L64I77fndVMJ53XlEmhkP3XkAzvqHAkD8Inxr3nV3GGsKQgjA-1YE3rklaM13OsvhKECiOAxdBul4FbWZdfpEcnmmMPmqcYJlACu6HVEP7JH1QAtTxUBC2AXxEc&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhovyumMeMAxU4DDQIHaV8DEoQtKgLegQIEhAB&biw=448&bih=851&dpr=2.25 https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&sca_e...
- jmann99999 2y ago
  Thanks for that! That makes sense and is very cool. In the US in the 80s we did something similar from the radio (the UK probably did too). So, I assume it was a similar principle. Love it.
shakna 2y ago
The video of the Four Buffs might help you understand this better. [0] There was an extra cable, containing a photo diode, that you just stuck to the screen itself. [0] https://youtu.be/xxo1Gs46ti0?si=fqPIaxaHGFFFJmpF https://youtu.be/xxo1Gs46ti0?si=fqPIaxaHGFFFJmpF
- deleted 2y ago

tech234a 2y ago

As a more recent example of a similar concept, TiVo would distribute guide data to their DVRs using encoded video broadcast during overnight Paid Programming time slots. The practice ran from about 1999 to 2016. Around 2016, TiVo discontinued support for guide data updates for their first-generation Series1 DVRs. I couldn't find much information about these broadcasts online, though someone did post a clip of one from 2003 [1], there are a few copies of more recent introduction and conclusion animations [2], and there is some information about them on Wikipedia [3]. It could be a fun project to try to decode it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfUgT2YoPzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfUgT2YoPzI [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnu97CHDrYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnu97CHDrYI [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infomercial#TiVo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infomercial#TiVo

trollbridge 2y ago
Some of us bought “lifetime” guide data subscriptions. It was rather irritating when “lifetime” actually meant “17 years”.
- jandrese 1y ago
  You still get guide data if you hook up an Ethernet jack and let it download data online. You need a USB Ethernet adapter, but even a cheap one is fine. I remember there was even a slot (I think it was PCI electrically?) on the gen 1 TiVos you could buy a real ethernet card for and then cut a slot in the case to run the cable out. That was a long time ago. I can't imagine there are that many Gen 1 TiVos still in use. I think they were SD only. Certainly don't support ATSC, so you would have to have a compatible converter box if you have it hooked up to an antenna.
  - trollbridge 1y ago
    Yeah, I had one of the original Ethernet-converted TiVos, made by my roommate at the time who hand-soldered the debug port to ISA adapter from a blank PCB and a bag of parts. We rooted it, put an NE-2000 card in it, and then didn't need our home phone line anymore. (Also tossed an 80GB WD drive in it to replace the pathetic 20GB it came with.) Network-connected download of the guide data stopped working a number of years ago. I was still using mine connected to basic cable, which still had standard-def channels. (And yes, the ATSC to NTSC converter boxes could be persuaded to work.) Eventually, something like an HDHomeRun setup is a lot easier... but nothing will ever replace the "feel" of the TiVo remote. Particularly the 15-second skip button!

spc476 2y ago

Here's a recent attempt to load code via video recordings of a TV show from the 80s. It wasn't an easy task. From the Youtube channel Retro Recipies: Decoding A Program Sent From The Past: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezkfYTN6EQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezkfYTN6EQ Did We Decode A Program Sent From The Past?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRcs_TUpQ6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRcs_TUpQ6g ACTUALLY Receiving A Program Sent From The Past!:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm0EACgCbM0&t=1203s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm0EACgCbM0&t=1203s

spzb 2y ago
That’s exactly the sort of thing I was hoping someone would have done. Thanks for sharing!

jccalhoun 2y ago

I remember for a short time Computer Chronicle would have a segment where they flashed what looked like static on the screen to transmit programs. You had to have some device to capture it and send it to a computer. Edit: It looks like it was the followup to Computer Chronicles: Net Cafe https://cyborganthropology.com/TV_Modem https://cyborganthropology.com/TV_Modem

NoSalt 1y ago

I must say that I was more interested in his Mazinga action figure on the desk. I had a larger one, Shogun Warrior, when I was a kid, and I miss that toy.

bcrl 1y ago

Back in the early 1990s I recall working on a system that downloaded Usenet news feeds over satellite. I worked for a local sysop at the time, and due to high long distance costs in Canada it was tremendously more cost effective than transporting a similar amount of bandwidth over leased lines. The rural area I lived in was only fed with copper T1 lines until ~1999 when a local group finally convinced the incumbent to install fiber with the promise of over $1 million in business from the local municipalities, schools and hospitals. Residential and business ADSL was purely a side effect of that effort. We didn't get new DSLAMs with limited VDSL2 service until summer of 2014, and it still took them a couple of years to fix issues with the copper and qualify more than a handful of lines.

urtie 1y ago

This reminds me of the Basicode system, which transmitted cross platform programs over the radio... and in the Netherlands, some of the programs could then be checked against the checksummed program listings on Teletext...