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But they weren't unresponsive to the actual needs of their voters. Biden was one of the most successful presidents in US history, but in this Republican-led pos

But they weren't unresponsive to the actual needs of their voters. Biden was one of the most successful presidents in US history, but in this Republican-led post-factual world facts don't matter. The blame for that rests solely on US citizens. They've allowed themselves to be lulled into the fantasy that the party will continue on and on regardless of reality. Well, the party is over.

ok123456 2y ago
> But they weren't unresponsive to the actual needs of their voters. Medicare for all? A cease-fire in Gaza and an end to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?
- jmye 2y ago
  Gaza was not a need of the vast majority of their voters, whatever a handful of college kids who are utterly incapable of understanding basic international politics think of themselves. Neither is Bernie’s idiotic version of Medicare for all, in spite of it being a fun bumper sticker. Y’all have gotta give up the TikTok bullshit and read some books.
  - netsharc 2y ago
    With margins so thin, supporting the genocide might've lost Harris some votes. But there was probably some internal calculation of whether being pro or against the killing of the children (amongst others) was a net positive or negative for their number of votes. Yeah, politics, where you kill your conscience for the chance of winning.
    - jmye 2y ago
      It’s clear you don’t understand anything about the conflict or what might happen if the US withdrew support for Israel. What’s weird is refusing to bother learning, and instead plugging your ears so you can smarmily opine about being “pro killing children”. Again, this is social media political thinking. No nuance or even a vague hand wave at intellectual honesty.
      - ok123456 2y ago
        There's no nuance with a genocide.
  - ok123456 2y ago
    > Y’all have gotta give up the TikTok bullshit and read some books. I have a book for you that predates the "TikTok bullshit." It's called "The Fateful Triangle" by Noam Chomsky. He portrays internal Isreali thought and political currents in the early '80s, which are more or less unchanged 40+ years later. In particular, the dichotomy between the "doves" of the left who want an apartheid state with a pacified Palestinian population to live in townships whose purpose is to provide cheap labor, and the "hawks" who outright called for the Lebensraum policies that we're seeing today in the illegally occupied territories of the, as Menachem Begin called them, "beasts walking on two legs," remains unchanged. As for Medicare for All, I don't know of anyone who has had a positive experience using the American for-profit, multi-payer healthcare system. What is the alternative bumper sticker for keeping the status quo? "I <3 Getting my claims denied" or maybe "I DON'T want to shoot the CEO"?
    - jmye 2y ago
      > I don't know of anyone who has had a positive experience using the American for-profit, multi-payer healthcare system You’re aware, of course, that it isn’t a binary choice, right? That Medicare for All isn’t the sole and only other possibility, or that thinking it’s an idiotic idea does not, in fact, suggest that one thinks the status quo is perfect? What, specifically, do you know about healthcare, Medicare reimbursements, or how doctors work in this country? What, specifically, do you know about how the current system functions? I’m curious what apparently extensive knowledge underpins these really strongly held opinions. > Noam Chomsky Who may have done a brilliant job of discussing Israeli political thought, and whose writing might’ve led you to understand what would happen if the US withdrew support and Israel was pushed into an existential conflict. Let someone know when you get to that part.
kcplate 2y ago
> Biden was one of the most successful presidents in US history Biden? If that man was actually the one leading the country over the last 2+ years, I’ll eat your hat. All that is coming out now from multiple sources in the administration seem to indicate he hasn’t been capable of making many decisions for quite a while now.
- pmags 2y ago
  Can you give a few of the specific "multiple sources" you mention? I see posters on HN trot this out, but I'm yet to see any evidence of this. Can you point to a couple of reliable news sources reporting on this so I can read more for myself?
  - kcplate 2y ago
    There are two books that literally have dropped in the last 2 weeks and the authors have been doing a lot of media about them. One is called “Fight: Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House” another is called “Uncharted: How Trump beat Biden, Harris, and the Odds in the Wildest Campaign in History”. Both of these books quote anecdotes from Biden admin insiders and dem politicians about the challenges they saw and experienced. DNC fundraiser Lindi Li has been all over the podcasts and news (back in November a lot) talking about the challenges she saw. I’m not sure what you consider “reliable news sources” but I have seen this topic and these authors, and Lindi Li on network, cable, and new media news sources across the spectrum.
the_snooze 2y ago
I was a Biden voter, but he was a weak and deeply disappointing president who exercised awful judgment on multiple occasions: running for re-election at his advanced age, not sacking Lloyd Austin for either the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal or going on cancer leave without telling anyone, not taking the lead on ending the COVID emergency (Colorado's Jared Polis was ahead of the White House on that), having so little control over White House interns that they released open letters against official Biden Israel policy, failing to take inflation seriously, etc. Republicans are awful, but Democrats don't seem to want to do any better than "at least we're not them." It shouldn't be any surprise that Trump has (had?) real appeal over feckless national Democrats.
sn9 2y ago
Voters don't respond to long-term policy wins or economic data. They respond to the perception of their material conditions, and the rise in inflation of the last few years has resulted in regime change all over the world. Liberals are only just now beginning to realize this, but it remains to be seen if they'll learn at a scale that matters.
- monkeyfun 2y ago
  And of course, one of the other dirty aspects to this is that if you're willing to emotionally jerk off and manipulate your base to the extreme, that basic perception of material conditions can distort away from reality. Not completely so, but it's part of what makes populism so powerful, and unless they can find ways to embrace elements of populism they're going to find nobody's receptive to their messages.
  - Whoppertime 2y ago
    It doesn't matter how much you manipulate people if they cannot afford to get married buy a home and raise kids they will know.

ok123456 2y ago

> But they weren't unresponsive to the actual needs of their voters. Medicare for all? A cease-fire in Gaza and an end to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?

jmye 2y ago
Gaza was not a need of the vast majority of their voters, whatever a handful of college kids who are utterly incapable of understanding basic international politics think of themselves. Neither is Bernie’s idiotic version of Medicare for all, in spite of it being a fun bumper sticker. Y’all have gotta give up the TikTok bullshit and read some books.
- netsharc 2y ago
  With margins so thin, supporting the genocide might've lost Harris some votes. But there was probably some internal calculation of whether being pro or against the killing of the children (amongst others) was a net positive or negative for their number of votes. Yeah, politics, where you kill your conscience for the chance of winning.
  - jmye 2y ago
    It’s clear you don’t understand anything about the conflict or what might happen if the US withdrew support for Israel. What’s weird is refusing to bother learning, and instead plugging your ears so you can smarmily opine about being “pro killing children”. Again, this is social media political thinking. No nuance or even a vague hand wave at intellectual honesty.
    - ok123456 2y ago
      There's no nuance with a genocide.
- ok123456 2y ago
  > Y’all have gotta give up the TikTok bullshit and read some books. I have a book for you that predates the "TikTok bullshit." It's called "The Fateful Triangle" by Noam Chomsky. He portrays internal Isreali thought and political currents in the early '80s, which are more or less unchanged 40+ years later. In particular, the dichotomy between the "doves" of the left who want an apartheid state with a pacified Palestinian population to live in townships whose purpose is to provide cheap labor, and the "hawks" who outright called for the Lebensraum policies that we're seeing today in the illegally occupied territories of the, as Menachem Begin called them, "beasts walking on two legs," remains unchanged. As for Medicare for All, I don't know of anyone who has had a positive experience using the American for-profit, multi-payer healthcare system. What is the alternative bumper sticker for keeping the status quo? "I <3 Getting my claims denied" or maybe "I DON'T want to shoot the CEO"?
  - jmye 2y ago
    > I don't know of anyone who has had a positive experience using the American for-profit, multi-payer healthcare system You’re aware, of course, that it isn’t a binary choice, right? That Medicare for All isn’t the sole and only other possibility, or that thinking it’s an idiotic idea does not, in fact, suggest that one thinks the status quo is perfect? What, specifically, do you know about healthcare, Medicare reimbursements, or how doctors work in this country? What, specifically, do you know about how the current system functions? I’m curious what apparently extensive knowledge underpins these really strongly held opinions. > Noam Chomsky Who may have done a brilliant job of discussing Israeli political thought, and whose writing might’ve led you to understand what would happen if the US withdrew support and Israel was pushed into an existential conflict. Let someone know when you get to that part.

kcplate 2y ago

> Biden was one of the most successful presidents in US history Biden? If that man was actually the one leading the country over the last 2+ years, I’ll eat your hat. All that is coming out now from multiple sources in the administration seem to indicate he hasn’t been capable of making many decisions for quite a while now.

pmags 2y ago
Can you give a few of the specific "multiple sources" you mention? I see posters on HN trot this out, but I'm yet to see any evidence of this. Can you point to a couple of reliable news sources reporting on this so I can read more for myself?
- kcplate 2y ago
  There are two books that literally have dropped in the last 2 weeks and the authors have been doing a lot of media about them. One is called “Fight: Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House” another is called “Uncharted: How Trump beat Biden, Harris, and the Odds in the Wildest Campaign in History”. Both of these books quote anecdotes from Biden admin insiders and dem politicians about the challenges they saw and experienced. DNC fundraiser Lindi Li has been all over the podcasts and news (back in November a lot) talking about the challenges she saw. I’m not sure what you consider “reliable news sources” but I have seen this topic and these authors, and Lindi Li on network, cable, and new media news sources across the spectrum.

the_snooze 2y ago

I was a Biden voter, but he was a weak and deeply disappointing president who exercised awful judgment on multiple occasions: running for re-election at his advanced age, not sacking Lloyd Austin for either the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal or going on cancer leave without telling anyone, not taking the lead on ending the COVID emergency (Colorado's Jared Polis was ahead of the White House on that), having so little control over White House interns that they released open letters against official Biden Israel policy, failing to take inflation seriously, etc. Republicans are awful, but Democrats don't seem to want to do any better than "at least we're not them." It shouldn't be any surprise that Trump has (had?) real appeal over feckless national Democrats.

sn9 2y ago

Voters don't respond to long-term policy wins or economic data. They respond to the perception of their material conditions, and the rise in inflation of the last few years has resulted in regime change all over the world. Liberals are only just now beginning to realize this, but it remains to be seen if they'll learn at a scale that matters.

monkeyfun 2y ago
And of course, one of the other dirty aspects to this is that if you're willing to emotionally jerk off and manipulate your base to the extreme, that basic perception of material conditions can distort away from reality. Not completely so, but it's part of what makes populism so powerful, and unless they can find ways to embrace elements of populism they're going to find nobody's receptive to their messages.
- Whoppertime 2y ago
  It doesn't matter how much you manipulate people if they cannot afford to get married buy a home and raise kids they will know.