5 ms·

Important context that's come to light since then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_hair_mustache_puzzle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_hair_mustache_puzzle

drooopy 1y ago
Crazy to think that the same game contains both the worst puzzle ever conceived (cat hair) and arguably one of the finest, "Le Serpent Rouge".
andrewflnr 1y ago
Highlights: > It was created by the game's producer, Steven Hill, after a puzzle designed by the game's lead designer, Jane Jensen, was cut due to budgetary reasons. > It came as a result of a puzzle created by the game's designer, Jane Jensen, needing to be removed due to budget concerns. What an incredibly classic, braindead tragedy.
acomjean 1y ago
I mean its a bad example, but not the only example of obtuse puzzles in games preventing forward progress in game. Dead ends and not being able to finish if messed up a previous steps were real problems. This was a bigger issue when the internet wasn't available to help out. I like adventure games, but even still they can be difficult and frustrating (although maybe I'm not great at them) Puzzle Dependency charts in game design help this (from Ron Gilbert/ Monkey Island etc...). https://grumpygamer.com/puzzle_dependency_charts/ https://grumpygamer.com/puzzle_dependency_charts/
- benoau 1y ago
  It used to be pretty common to buy strategy books for the really tough games!
- freddie_mercury 1y ago
  I remember playing Space Quest IV and we got to a part where we were completely blocked. We got parents permission to call Sierra's 1-900 hint line (who knows how much that cost) to find out that the game won't process until you stand on a certain pixel in the back of the arcade. There was no reason to go there, so while we had walked around the arcade many times apparently we never stepped on that precise pixel.
  - Klaster_1 1y ago
    Back then as a kid, I made dozens of attempts at SQ5, the best I managed before giving up was dying in some ventilation shaft towards finale. This was my first point and click adventure, but hostile game design decisions really put me off other Sierra games, the only one I finished was SQ1 VGA. Arbitrary actions you have to take with consequences hours later are such BS.
  - wileydragonfly 1y ago
    I was stuck on that puzzle for years, let a friend borrow it, and he confidently announces the solution a couple days later. He swore he had uncovered it through trial and error, but I didn’t believe him. Still don’t. You weren’t running a BBS in the 90s, were you?
    - freddie_mercury 1y ago
      Nope, didn't even own a computer back then (parents too poor), it was my friend's computer. Was a while after that before I got online.
- hibikir 1y ago
  Sierra's early catalog was basically a large collection of dead-man-walking situations. A key item for the endgame of Space Quest 1 stops being available 5 minutes into the game. Kings Quest II has a bridge that can breaks down every time you cross it, and you must do the right thing on every single crossing, as one superfluous crossing alone will end the game. Even as far as 1991 they were still making games where you could put yourself in an unwinnable scenario by missing an item hours before, sometimes in what you thought was a non-interactive cutscene! Very few modern adventure games bring any of that back.
  - duskwuff 1y ago
    There's a system for describing that - the "Game Cruelty Scale": https://www.ifwiki.org/Cruelty_scale https://www.ifwiki.org/Cruelty_scale A lot of early adventure games were Cruel - requiring the user to replay the game over and over because they got something wrong was a cheap way to extend play time without having to add more content. Thankfully, most modern developers have realized that players hate having to do that.

drooopy 1y ago

Crazy to think that the same game contains both the worst puzzle ever conceived (cat hair) and arguably one of the finest, "Le Serpent Rouge".

andrewflnr 1y ago

Highlights: > It was created by the game's producer, Steven Hill, after a puzzle designed by the game's lead designer, Jane Jensen, was cut due to budgetary reasons. > It came as a result of a puzzle created by the game's designer, Jane Jensen, needing to be removed due to budget concerns. What an incredibly classic, braindead tragedy.

acomjean 1y ago

I mean its a bad example, but not the only example of obtuse puzzles in games preventing forward progress in game. Dead ends and not being able to finish if messed up a previous steps were real problems. This was a bigger issue when the internet wasn't available to help out. I like adventure games, but even still they can be difficult and frustrating (although maybe I'm not great at them) Puzzle Dependency charts in game design help this (from Ron Gilbert/ Monkey Island etc...). https://grumpygamer.com/puzzle_dependency_charts/ https://grumpygamer.com/puzzle_dependency_charts/

benoau 1y ago
It used to be pretty common to buy strategy books for the really tough games!
freddie_mercury 1y ago
I remember playing Space Quest IV and we got to a part where we were completely blocked. We got parents permission to call Sierra's 1-900 hint line (who knows how much that cost) to find out that the game won't process until you stand on a certain pixel in the back of the arcade. There was no reason to go there, so while we had walked around the arcade many times apparently we never stepped on that precise pixel.
- Klaster_1 1y ago
  Back then as a kid, I made dozens of attempts at SQ5, the best I managed before giving up was dying in some ventilation shaft towards finale. This was my first point and click adventure, but hostile game design decisions really put me off other Sierra games, the only one I finished was SQ1 VGA. Arbitrary actions you have to take with consequences hours later are such BS.
- wileydragonfly 1y ago
  I was stuck on that puzzle for years, let a friend borrow it, and he confidently announces the solution a couple days later. He swore he had uncovered it through trial and error, but I didn’t believe him. Still don’t. You weren’t running a BBS in the 90s, were you?
  - freddie_mercury 1y ago
    Nope, didn't even own a computer back then (parents too poor), it was my friend's computer. Was a while after that before I got online.
hibikir 1y ago
Sierra's early catalog was basically a large collection of dead-man-walking situations. A key item for the endgame of Space Quest 1 stops being available 5 minutes into the game. Kings Quest II has a bridge that can breaks down every time you cross it, and you must do the right thing on every single crossing, as one superfluous crossing alone will end the game. Even as far as 1991 they were still making games where you could put yourself in an unwinnable scenario by missing an item hours before, sometimes in what you thought was a non-interactive cutscene! Very few modern adventure games bring any of that back.
- duskwuff 1y ago
  There's a system for describing that - the "Game Cruelty Scale": https://www.ifwiki.org/Cruelty_scale https://www.ifwiki.org/Cruelty_scale A lot of early adventure games were Cruel - requiring the user to replay the game over and over because they got something wrong was a cheap way to extend play time without having to add more content. Thankfully, most modern developers have realized that players hate having to do that.