7 ms·

I can't think of a single OS X user that would even begin to consider using Steam as an app store or launcher for anything but games.

duaneb 14y ago
ME! Christ, I hate the app store. They don't need to do much to improve on it. Also, part of the reason that you can't imagine it is because Steam is currently a games network. Who knows how people might perceive steam in a year? Also, they may make money simply by offering the excellent software that isn't sandboxed: Alfred, Sourcetree, etc. Plus, I will never release on the app store unless I don't plan on making any money on it. It's simply developer-unfriendly: no trials, no paid upgrades - it's as if Apple is trying to kill off using the Mac to make a living of selling software and force developers into subscription/freemium models.
- shinratdr 14y ago
  That's a pretty fair decree of the App Store. Doesn't mean even slightly that Steam is a better alternative. It's a horrible launcher and a terrible Mac OS X app. It's a great service and games store and I use it all the time, but as an OS X app it's awful. It requires you to have "enable access for assistive devices" on just to render its interface. Valve knows absolutely nothing about the platform except what it needs to to make basic ports. Mark my words, they will not become a viable distribution system in OS X without completely and radically overhauling Steam from the ground up. Just "adding apps" isn't going to do anything.
  - c0n5pir4cy 14y ago
    You only have to "Enable access for assistive devices" for the in-game interface, because it requires directly controlling the hardware. In Windows this is done by dll injection, of which even a similar process isn't possible in any *NIX operating systems.
    - shinratdr 14y ago
      Fair enough, that wasn't a great example. However the Steam UI becoming randomly invisible when docked and then undocked, in-app browser constantly breaking, and using their own notifications UI that gets stuck on screen and doesn't offer Growl support are better examples.
    - comex 14y ago
      > In Windows this is done by dll injection, of which even a similar process isn't possible in any *NIX operating systems. Actually, it's possible to do almost exactly the same thing on other platforms. http://guiheneuf.org/mach%20inject%20for%20intel.html http://guiheneuf.org/mach%20inject%20for%20intel.html
    - thristian 14y ago
      Linux's LD_PRELOAD system lets you replace some executable's dynamically-loaded symbols with your own implementations, and the OS X "dyld" manpage mentions "DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES" which seems to be similar. Is that close enough to "DLL injection"?
  - duaneb 14y ago
    >Doesn't mean even slightly that Steam is a better alternative. It's a horrible launcher and a terrible Mac OS X app. It's a great service and games store and I use it all the time, but as an OS X app it's awful. I agree. I'm hoping competition will spur one or both of them to actually make a kickass service.
koko775 14y ago
Me. I use Windows and Linux in addition, so a cross-system marketplace would have significant appeal to me. The MAS is mostly a dud to me, whereas I waste oodles of money on Steam.
- shinratdr 14y ago
  That market is extremely small. Most people don't use applications like that, or OSes like that, nor do devs really offer cross platform applications like that. I also don't understand why the MAS is a dud and this would be any better. Steam's standards and review process are way more strict and cryptic than Apple's. Plenty of indie devs have felt the sting of Steam rejection. I have little doubt they will also require sandboxing. Is it just the cross platform aspect? Everything else about it seems to be the same or worse. Not to mention Steam's integration with its host OS is just awful. It's like a completely segmented world rarely following any UI guidelines or making any attempt to fit in.
  - Karunamon 14y ago
    Strict and cryptic? They released a system that will basically crowdsource most of it. http://steamcommunity.com/greenlight/ http://steamcommunity.com/greenlight/
    - shinratdr 14y ago
      It says "Coming Soon" on that page, not "Released". That's not how it works at all right now, and moreover what do you need to crowdsource? If you're a developer and you make an app that doesn't violate the rules of the store, you should be able to submit it. That's how the App Store works. Having to rally community support with no promise of what the threshold for acceptance is is crazy. Doesn't seem more transparent or less cryptic to me at all.
      - Karunamon 14y ago
        >It says "Coming Soon" on that page, not "Released". Note that I said "will" not "does". >If you're a developer and you make an app that doesn't violate the rules of the store, you should be able to submit it. You can. That's just no guarantee you'll get in. >Having to rally community support with no promise of what the threshold for acceptance is is crazy. Allowing every random to put their garbage up on a trusted store with no vetting is crazier. There's a reason the Google Market is a bit like the wild west. Malware and adware and garbage, oh my!
vnchr 14y ago
Tim Cook of Apple may disagree with you. He was reported to have met with Gabe Newell of Steam in April. http://kotaku.com/5901821/did-tim-cook-and-gabe-newell-meet-today http://kotaku.com/5901821/did-tim-cook-and-gabe-newell-meet-...
- shinratdr 14y ago
  That was long ago proven to be false, and either way it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Apple would never collaborate with an outside party on an alternate app distribution system. That's ridiculous.

duaneb 14y ago

ME! Christ, I hate the app store. They don't need to do much to improve on it. Also, part of the reason that you can't imagine it is because Steam is currently a games network. Who knows how people might perceive steam in a year? Also, they may make money simply by offering the excellent software that isn't sandboxed: Alfred, Sourcetree, etc. Plus, I will never release on the app store unless I don't plan on making any money on it. It's simply developer-unfriendly: no trials, no paid upgrades - it's as if Apple is trying to kill off using the Mac to make a living of selling software and force developers into subscription/freemium models.

shinratdr 14y ago
That's a pretty fair decree of the App Store. Doesn't mean even slightly that Steam is a better alternative. It's a horrible launcher and a terrible Mac OS X app. It's a great service and games store and I use it all the time, but as an OS X app it's awful. It requires you to have "enable access for assistive devices" on just to render its interface. Valve knows absolutely nothing about the platform except what it needs to to make basic ports. Mark my words, they will not become a viable distribution system in OS X without completely and radically overhauling Steam from the ground up. Just "adding apps" isn't going to do anything.
- c0n5pir4cy 14y ago
  You only have to "Enable access for assistive devices" for the in-game interface, because it requires directly controlling the hardware. In Windows this is done by dll injection, of which even a similar process isn't possible in any *NIX operating systems.
  - shinratdr 14y ago
    Fair enough, that wasn't a great example. However the Steam UI becoming randomly invisible when docked and then undocked, in-app browser constantly breaking, and using their own notifications UI that gets stuck on screen and doesn't offer Growl support are better examples.
  - comex 14y ago
    > In Windows this is done by dll injection, of which even a similar process isn't possible in any *NIX operating systems. Actually, it's possible to do almost exactly the same thing on other platforms. http://guiheneuf.org/mach%20inject%20for%20intel.html http://guiheneuf.org/mach%20inject%20for%20intel.html
  - thristian 14y ago
    Linux's LD_PRELOAD system lets you replace some executable's dynamically-loaded symbols with your own implementations, and the OS X "dyld" manpage mentions "DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES" which seems to be similar. Is that close enough to "DLL injection"?
- duaneb 14y ago
  >Doesn't mean even slightly that Steam is a better alternative. It's a horrible launcher and a terrible Mac OS X app. It's a great service and games store and I use it all the time, but as an OS X app it's awful. I agree. I'm hoping competition will spur one or both of them to actually make a kickass service.

koko775 14y ago

Me. I use Windows and Linux in addition, so a cross-system marketplace would have significant appeal to me. The MAS is mostly a dud to me, whereas I waste oodles of money on Steam.

shinratdr 14y ago
That market is extremely small. Most people don't use applications like that, or OSes like that, nor do devs really offer cross platform applications like that. I also don't understand why the MAS is a dud and this would be any better. Steam's standards and review process are way more strict and cryptic than Apple's. Plenty of indie devs have felt the sting of Steam rejection. I have little doubt they will also require sandboxing. Is it just the cross platform aspect? Everything else about it seems to be the same or worse. Not to mention Steam's integration with its host OS is just awful. It's like a completely segmented world rarely following any UI guidelines or making any attempt to fit in.
- Karunamon 14y ago
  Strict and cryptic? They released a system that will basically crowdsource most of it. http://steamcommunity.com/greenlight/ http://steamcommunity.com/greenlight/
  - shinratdr 14y ago
    It says "Coming Soon" on that page, not "Released". That's not how it works at all right now, and moreover what do you need to crowdsource? If you're a developer and you make an app that doesn't violate the rules of the store, you should be able to submit it. That's how the App Store works. Having to rally community support with no promise of what the threshold for acceptance is is crazy. Doesn't seem more transparent or less cryptic to me at all.
    - Karunamon 14y ago
      >It says "Coming Soon" on that page, not "Released". Note that I said "will" not "does". >If you're a developer and you make an app that doesn't violate the rules of the store, you should be able to submit it. You can. That's just no guarantee you'll get in. >Having to rally community support with no promise of what the threshold for acceptance is is crazy. Allowing every random to put their garbage up on a trusted store with no vetting is crazier. There's a reason the Google Market is a bit like the wild west. Malware and adware and garbage, oh my!

vnchr 14y ago

Tim Cook of Apple may disagree with you. He was reported to have met with Gabe Newell of Steam in April. http://kotaku.com/5901821/did-tim-cook-and-gabe-newell-meet-today http://kotaku.com/5901821/did-tim-cook-and-gabe-newell-meet-...

shinratdr 14y ago
That was long ago proven to be false, and either way it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Apple would never collaborate with an outside party on an alternate app distribution system. That's ridiculous.