3 ms·

The bit about the usefulness for lubrication is fairly wrong. To put it simply, it's useful because it's a corrosion inhibitor. And while it works it degrades

The bit about the usefulness for lubrication is fairly wrong. To put it simply, it's useful because it's a corrosion inhibitor. And while it works it degrades pretty rapidly in a hot gearbox. Synthetic alternatives were simply better. And they were developed and gaining traction before the ban, because they were better. Industrial machinery mostly doesn't need those properties. Whale oil is a poor lubricant by itself though it can look decent if your frame of reference is what's available in the 1860s. Between what you found and what I found I think the whole thing is kinda sus. Edit: To clarify, Whale oil is hydroscopic-ish but in a weird way, not like glycol (I'm not a chemist so IDK). My understanding is that it makes some sort of film that's protective against condensation. Gearboxes operated outdoors don't generally need this corrosion inhibitor. It has to do with the glues used on or in automatic transmission friction material and how very sensitive they are to water. You can't have water building up from ambient conditions and short trips or they'll delaminate. Your alternatives without something like this are rivets or different glue, both of which perform worse and cost more.

timdiggerm 2y ago
His overall point, that it happened later, after different technological innovations, and required government regulation is correct though
- potato3732842 2y ago
  I think government regulation probably only advanced the inevitable. Synthetic substitutes were developed for performance (temperature tolerance and service life). It was likely only a matter of time until said substitutes made their way back into older specifications for oil due to natural economic incentives. Perhaps there would still be some niche whaling if not for the ban, but it would be for a niche use, not because literally every automatic transmission in the country needs a cup of the stuff.
  - wat10000 2y ago
    There is stil some niche whaling. It's all done for meat, but if there was any industrial value for some parts of the whale, I imagine that would be extracted and sold. I don't think there's anything like that.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Often when there is government regulations it is because those regulated approve. Not always, but often. Oil refineries are attacked in the press by government, but when they want a permit to do something it is always quietly granted.
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    > Perhaps there would still be some niche whaling if not for the ban There is still whaling. Iceland, Japan, Norway, North American indigenous peoples and the Danish dependencies of the Faroe Islands and Greenland continue to hunt in the 21st century. Worse, Iceland, Japan and Norway still engage in and supporting commercial hunting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling
  - xorcist 2y ago
    There is no "only" in advancing the inevitable. A century may be a blip on the geological timescale but it makes an enourmous difference for civilization. A century from now, global warming will be "solved", one way or another. The open question is what civilization looks like.
- jujube3 2y ago
  The main thing it required was the Soviet Union to stop whaling. https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-crime-of-the-20th-century-russia-whaling-67774/ https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-c... This isn't a story about the free market run amok.
kmt-lnh 2y ago
The synthetic alternatives became better only much later. A blast from the past, from the old web, wher e competence meets ugly web design: "It was true that increased heat load destroyed the modified sperm oil in the ATF faster. The problem was that its freshly developed synthetic analogs were performing even worse. Only in the 1980s, a chemical solution to this problem was found, and I highly doubt that it could have been found earlier. Now we have the pieces of the story: Sperm whales use unusual rheological properties of wax esters in order to control buoyancy, and these properties also make such chemicals an ideal lubricant for extreme pressure applications. When the world relied on whales as a source of hydrocarbons, these were too expensive to use as fuels, and the demand was self-limiting. When the whales were “saved” by petrochemical industry, it was only a short respite. Petrol-powered machinery required new types of lubricants that increased rather than decreased the reliance on sperm oil. Petroleum was plentiful, the cars filled the world, and it is at that point that the whales began to disappear. Literally nothing was done to save these whales until the cars evolved to the point when the engines started to operate at a higher temperature; the latter was caused by the concern about human health and efficiency rather than the well being of these whales." https://shkrobius.livejournal.com/347646.html https://shkrobius.livejournal.com/347646.html (2011)

timdiggerm 2y ago

His overall point, that it happened later, after different technological innovations, and required government regulation is correct though

potato3732842 2y ago
I think government regulation probably only advanced the inevitable. Synthetic substitutes were developed for performance (temperature tolerance and service life). It was likely only a matter of time until said substitutes made their way back into older specifications for oil due to natural economic incentives. Perhaps there would still be some niche whaling if not for the ban, but it would be for a niche use, not because literally every automatic transmission in the country needs a cup of the stuff.
- wat10000 2y ago
  There is stil some niche whaling. It's all done for meat, but if there was any industrial value for some parts of the whale, I imagine that would be extracted and sold. I don't think there's anything like that.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Often when there is government regulations it is because those regulated approve. Not always, but often. Oil refineries are attacked in the press by government, but when they want a permit to do something it is always quietly granted.
- lostlogin 2y ago
  > Perhaps there would still be some niche whaling if not for the ban There is still whaling. Iceland, Japan, Norway, North American indigenous peoples and the Danish dependencies of the Faroe Islands and Greenland continue to hunt in the 21st century. Worse, Iceland, Japan and Norway still engage in and supporting commercial hunting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling
- xorcist 2y ago
  There is no "only" in advancing the inevitable. A century may be a blip on the geological timescale but it makes an enourmous difference for civilization. A century from now, global warming will be "solved", one way or another. The open question is what civilization looks like.
jujube3 2y ago
The main thing it required was the Soviet Union to stop whaling. https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-crime-of-the-20th-century-russia-whaling-67774/ https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-c... This isn't a story about the free market run amok.

kmt-lnh 2y ago

The synthetic alternatives became better only much later. A blast from the past, from the old web, wher e competence meets ugly web design: "It was true that increased heat load destroyed the modified sperm oil in the ATF faster. The problem was that its freshly developed synthetic analogs were performing even worse. Only in the 1980s, a chemical solution to this problem was found, and I highly doubt that it could have been found earlier. Now we have the pieces of the story: Sperm whales use unusual rheological properties of wax esters in order to control buoyancy, and these properties also make such chemicals an ideal lubricant for extreme pressure applications. When the world relied on whales as a source of hydrocarbons, these were too expensive to use as fuels, and the demand was self-limiting. When the whales were “saved” by petrochemical industry, it was only a short respite. Petrol-powered machinery required new types of lubricants that increased rather than decreased the reliance on sperm oil. Petroleum was plentiful, the cars filled the world, and it is at that point that the whales began to disappear. Literally nothing was done to save these whales until the cars evolved to the point when the engines started to operate at a higher temperature; the latter was caused by the concern about human health and efficiency rather than the well being of these whales." https://shkrobius.livejournal.com/347646.html https://shkrobius.livejournal.com/347646.html (2011)