4 ms·

I’m an American that moved to Europe over ten years ago. It’s interesting to see what I’ve anecdotally observed backed up by real stats - old people just seem h

I’m an American that moved to Europe over ten years ago. It’s interesting to see what I’ve anecdotally observed backed up by real stats - old people just seem healthier and more active here. I’ll be hiking in the alps and being passed by old people on the trail. I’ve gone ski touring and saw people in their 70s climbing mountains with me. I had a 90-year-old neighbor that was more active than me in the neighborhood until she finally died outside walking. Another observation - wealthy Americans live like poor Europeans. Living somewhere where you have to drive everywhere is something that poor people have to do here. Eating manufactured unhealthy food - poor.

MrSkelter 2y ago
I am a dual national with roots in Europe. A far greater contributor is the lack of avoidable chronic disease in Europe. I know many middle class and above Americans who have ongoing battles with their insurance companies to treat and manage relatively mundane issues. If they apply enough time and money they can usually resolve things though often this requires pausing treatment or changing doctors recommendations. This does not exist in Europe. What your doctors recommend happens regardless of your income. There is an image I see when in the US. A homeless person who is crippled and pushing themselves with a stick or one leg in a wheelchair. Lame thanks to lack of treatment. You never see that in Europe. Homeless people exist but they aren’t chronically ill. This has positive effects for everyone. There is less disease in the environment and it’s easier for people to literally get back on their feet. It’s a bit of wishful thinking to presume Americans poor health is all lifestyle choices and advertising. It’s the system and a pervasive lack of easy to access treatment at all levels of society.
- Vegenoid 2y ago
  I have what I believe is "decent" employer-sponsored health insurance, but using the healthcare system is still an enormous pain in the ass, as is getting insurance to pay for the things that they are supposed to. I'm pretty healthy and young. I keep wondering "are there really that many people whose experience getting healthcare system doesn't suck ass and feel like getting robbed"? My partner insists that our health insurance must actually not be that good, I believe that our health insurance is above average and Americans have been conned into ignoring their own direct experience, but neither of us have much of a reference.
  - HelloAll 2y ago
    Insurers aren't there to help you. I've never met a person in all my years who was happy with health insurance. And that includes before the "cadillac" insurance packages were done away with. People don't want or choose this system (unless they work for insurers), but their voice doesn't matter. No politicians can afford to oppose the health care industry. We need campaign finance regulation, investment in education, and public election platforms to shift away from this unhealthy way of life.
  - onewheeltom 2y ago
    Medicine is a profit making venture with curing disease as a side effect
taeric 2y ago
This is also varied heavily in the US? My wife and I joke all the time that the 70yos are out jogging every day where we live, now. There is a set of cyclists that are all in their 60s we see several times a week outside of our house.
- nopcode 2y ago
  Of course, local climate is also a huge factor. You also see that within EU and USA.
  - taeric 2y ago
    To an extent, I suppose. There is also something to be said for just wanting to get outside. Summers in the pacific northwest are also a lot of really long days. Just writing that, though, makes me realize that most of the northern sections of the US are inline with what we call western Europe? Would be neat to see this broken down by latitude as a crude cohort check.
    - piva00 2y ago
      Most of the northern sections of the USA are on the same latitude as Southern Europe, reaching at most into South France. Germany, the UK are further north than the 45th parallel. A lot of Europe experiences longer days than PNW during spring to summer.
chneu 2y ago
It's, in part, the American diet. Americans eat an insane amount of beef, fat, grease, etc which accumulates into old age. Then older Americans see a reduction in "usable years" because basic things become difficult. A lot of older Americans are "skinny fat". In that they might not appear obese, but their actual health compares to an obese sedentary person. Add in the car centric culture, the obsession with luxury goods(beef is a luxury food), and the glorification of sedentary lifestyles, and you get olds who can barely walk for the last 20 years of their life. We're also seeing a crazy uptick in people in their 20s coming down with heart diseases. I havent looked into that specific issue in a while but the leading theories were over consumption of caffeine and beef. I grew up in rural America. I watched so many older people I knew come down with diabetes and heart issues in their 40s and early 50s. It meant they couldn't do much physically. A lot of older Americans, especially rural, spend their last 20 years trapped in their home because going outside is too much effort. In hindsight, and the data backs this up, it's clearly their diet. Americans glorify overconsumption of horrible foods. We made beef and meat a luxury good and encouraged it's over consumption by making it a "thing" successful people consumed every night.
- piva00 2y ago
  > We're also seeing a crazy uptick in people in their 20s coming down with heart diseases. I havent looked into that specific issue in a while but the leading theories were over consumption of caffeine and beef. I highly doubt it's caffeine, here in the Nordics we consume an absurd amount of coffee, and don't seem to experience a higher-than-average rate of heart disease in young adults.
  - chneu 2y ago
    It's energy drinks specifically. Multiple studies have found that the combination of caffeine + other stimulants produce heart issues that caffeine alone does not produce. 1 in 3 American children drink at least one energy drink per day. 2/3rds of teens have had an energy drink within the last 3 months. The US sees a weirdly high amount of hospitalizations related to energy drinks. It's a problem. This stuff stresses the heart way more than necessary and by their early 20s a lot of kids are showing heart issues.

MrSkelter 2y ago

I am a dual national with roots in Europe. A far greater contributor is the lack of avoidable chronic disease in Europe. I know many middle class and above Americans who have ongoing battles with their insurance companies to treat and manage relatively mundane issues. If they apply enough time and money they can usually resolve things though often this requires pausing treatment or changing doctors recommendations. This does not exist in Europe. What your doctors recommend happens regardless of your income. There is an image I see when in the US. A homeless person who is crippled and pushing themselves with a stick or one leg in a wheelchair. Lame thanks to lack of treatment. You never see that in Europe. Homeless people exist but they aren’t chronically ill. This has positive effects for everyone. There is less disease in the environment and it’s easier for people to literally get back on their feet. It’s a bit of wishful thinking to presume Americans poor health is all lifestyle choices and advertising. It’s the system and a pervasive lack of easy to access treatment at all levels of society.

Vegenoid 2y ago
I have what I believe is "decent" employer-sponsored health insurance, but using the healthcare system is still an enormous pain in the ass, as is getting insurance to pay for the things that they are supposed to. I'm pretty healthy and young. I keep wondering "are there really that many people whose experience getting healthcare system doesn't suck ass and feel like getting robbed"? My partner insists that our health insurance must actually not be that good, I believe that our health insurance is above average and Americans have been conned into ignoring their own direct experience, but neither of us have much of a reference.
- HelloAll 2y ago
  Insurers aren't there to help you. I've never met a person in all my years who was happy with health insurance. And that includes before the "cadillac" insurance packages were done away with. People don't want or choose this system (unless they work for insurers), but their voice doesn't matter. No politicians can afford to oppose the health care industry. We need campaign finance regulation, investment in education, and public election platforms to shift away from this unhealthy way of life.
- onewheeltom 2y ago
  Medicine is a profit making venture with curing disease as a side effect

taeric 2y ago

This is also varied heavily in the US? My wife and I joke all the time that the 70yos are out jogging every day where we live, now. There is a set of cyclists that are all in their 60s we see several times a week outside of our house.

nopcode 2y ago
Of course, local climate is also a huge factor. You also see that within EU and USA.
- taeric 2y ago
  To an extent, I suppose. There is also something to be said for just wanting to get outside. Summers in the pacific northwest are also a lot of really long days. Just writing that, though, makes me realize that most of the northern sections of the US are inline with what we call western Europe? Would be neat to see this broken down by latitude as a crude cohort check.
  - piva00 2y ago
    Most of the northern sections of the USA are on the same latitude as Southern Europe, reaching at most into South France. Germany, the UK are further north than the 45th parallel. A lot of Europe experiences longer days than PNW during spring to summer.

chneu 2y ago

It's, in part, the American diet. Americans eat an insane amount of beef, fat, grease, etc which accumulates into old age. Then older Americans see a reduction in "usable years" because basic things become difficult. A lot of older Americans are "skinny fat". In that they might not appear obese, but their actual health compares to an obese sedentary person. Add in the car centric culture, the obsession with luxury goods(beef is a luxury food), and the glorification of sedentary lifestyles, and you get olds who can barely walk for the last 20 years of their life. We're also seeing a crazy uptick in people in their 20s coming down with heart diseases. I havent looked into that specific issue in a while but the leading theories were over consumption of caffeine and beef. I grew up in rural America. I watched so many older people I knew come down with diabetes and heart issues in their 40s and early 50s. It meant they couldn't do much physically. A lot of older Americans, especially rural, spend their last 20 years trapped in their home because going outside is too much effort. In hindsight, and the data backs this up, it's clearly their diet. Americans glorify overconsumption of horrible foods. We made beef and meat a luxury good and encouraged it's over consumption by making it a "thing" successful people consumed every night.

piva00 2y ago
> We're also seeing a crazy uptick in people in their 20s coming down with heart diseases. I havent looked into that specific issue in a while but the leading theories were over consumption of caffeine and beef. I highly doubt it's caffeine, here in the Nordics we consume an absurd amount of coffee, and don't seem to experience a higher-than-average rate of heart disease in young adults.
- chneu 2y ago
  It's energy drinks specifically. Multiple studies have found that the combination of caffeine + other stimulants produce heart issues that caffeine alone does not produce. 1 in 3 American children drink at least one energy drink per day. 2/3rds of teens have had an energy drink within the last 3 months. The US sees a weirdly high amount of hospitalizations related to energy drinks. It's a problem. This stuff stresses the heart way more than necessary and by their early 20s a lot of kids are showing heart issues.