6 ms·

Aging isn’t a problem. It’s normal.

nathan_compton 2y ago
That which is normal is not necessarily also good or not problematic. Racism is normal, but its a problem. War is normal, but its absurdly wasteful and problematic. Cancer is normal etc.
- sgarland 2y ago
  > Racism is normal No, it is not. You ever observe small children in a multicultural group? They’re not racist, because they have no concept of it, nor why you’d want to do that. They see each other as peers. Racism is taught.
  - _Algernon_ 2y ago
    Just because a certain behaviour doesn't show up in a certain stage of life, doesn't mean it isn't an inherent behaviour. Babies don't talk. Talking is still an inherent behaviour of humans. Young children's social environment is almost entirely defined by their parents. You'd expect very little aggressive behaviour there.
  - nathan_compton 2y ago
    Small children typically ignore race, but there does seem to be (at the very least) a cultural tendency towards racism as people move into adulthood. There is a good book about it called "Why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?" https://www.amazon.com/Black-Kids-Sitting-Together-Cafeteria/dp/0465060684 https://www.amazon.com/Black-Kids-Sitting-Together-Cafeteria... People's characters need to be formed, I would at least argue, to overcome a normal tendency to be uncomfortable with difference.
bufferoverflow 2y ago
It's a problem for me. When you're 60 or 70, you will wish to have a body of a 25 year old. Dying early from rotting teeth is normal in nature, yet you probably brush, floss, and go to dentist.
- lm28469 2y ago
  That puts you way deep in the wishful thinking territory, again there is 0 rational connection between LLMs and immortality, especially if you're already on the way out
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    That's why I said "chance". And no, there's no zero rational connection. LLMs and other types of neural nets are already demonstrating they can solve complex tasks. Unless there's some intrinsic barrier to how intelligent they can become, we should surpass human level intelligence within years, maybe a decade. Once you surpass human level intelligence, you can scale scientific research by orders of magnitude. Heck, AI already assists scientific research. We basically solved protein folding problem with AI.
    - card_zero 2y ago
      How many intelligent are they?
- coldpie 2y ago
  I don't know how to reconcile this point of view, which I understand, with quotes like "science advances one funeral at a time," which I also understand. I understand the individual desire for advancing anti-aging techniques, but it also seems to contain extremely real risks of stagnating our sciences & societies. I can't tell whether anti-aging science is ethical or not.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    That's just a desire for a legal way to murder people (by waiting). It's entirely understandable, but we'll have to find another way.
    - coldpie 2y ago
      > we'll have to find another way You agree it is a problem, then. What are some solutions you can think of? I'm not convinced the gain is worth the pain, but maybe you have some ideas for me to think about.
singpolyma3 2y ago
It can be both
luc4sdreyer 2y ago
Animals eat their disabled children. Humans should also do it then, since it's normal or natural. Around 100k people die from age-related disease every day. I'd be careful to dismiss that as not a problem.
- lm28469 2y ago
  And them not dying would be an even bigger problem on pretty much every single metric I can think of
  - mproud 2y ago
    Yes, people grow old, but I don’t think there’s a rational fear people will ever live forever. However, there are diseases and conditions that are age-related that if solved would improve people’s quality of life, especially the last decade or two of their lives.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- nirse 2y ago
  I believe it would be a far greater problem if those people didn't die. Aging populations are a huge problem around the globe and unless we'd improve the quality of life to such a margin that octo- and nonagenarians are able to care for each other, I think we're all better off with people dying of old age.
Lerc 2y ago
Dying because I cannot function adequately due to poor vision is normal. Wearing crafted pieces of glass on my head every waking moment is not normal, but I choose to do it.
xboxnolifes 2y ago
We define normal by what is common and familiar. But that has no bearing on what ought to be. It's normal for half of all babies to die in the first year of their life. It's normal for an infected limb to commonly lead to death. Etc.

That which is normal is not necessarily also good or not problematic. Racism is normal, but its a problem. War is normal, but its absurdly wasteful and problematic. Cancer is normal etc.

sgarland 2y ago
> Racism is normal No, it is not. You ever observe small children in a multicultural group? They’re not racist, because they have no concept of it, nor why you’d want to do that. They see each other as peers. Racism is taught.
- _Algernon_ 2y ago
  Just because a certain behaviour doesn't show up in a certain stage of life, doesn't mean it isn't an inherent behaviour. Babies don't talk. Talking is still an inherent behaviour of humans. Young children's social environment is almost entirely defined by their parents. You'd expect very little aggressive behaviour there.
- nathan_compton 2y ago
  Small children typically ignore race, but there does seem to be (at the very least) a cultural tendency towards racism as people move into adulthood. There is a good book about it called "Why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?" https://www.amazon.com/Black-Kids-Sitting-Together-Cafeteria/dp/0465060684 https://www.amazon.com/Black-Kids-Sitting-Together-Cafeteria... People's characters need to be formed, I would at least argue, to overcome a normal tendency to be uncomfortable with difference.

bufferoverflow 2y ago

It's a problem for me. When you're 60 or 70, you will wish to have a body of a 25 year old. Dying early from rotting teeth is normal in nature, yet you probably brush, floss, and go to dentist.

lm28469 2y ago
That puts you way deep in the wishful thinking territory, again there is 0 rational connection between LLMs and immortality, especially if you're already on the way out
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  That's why I said "chance". And no, there's no zero rational connection. LLMs and other types of neural nets are already demonstrating they can solve complex tasks. Unless there's some intrinsic barrier to how intelligent they can become, we should surpass human level intelligence within years, maybe a decade. Once you surpass human level intelligence, you can scale scientific research by orders of magnitude. Heck, AI already assists scientific research. We basically solved protein folding problem with AI.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    How many intelligent are they?
coldpie 2y ago
I don't know how to reconcile this point of view, which I understand, with quotes like "science advances one funeral at a time," which I also understand. I understand the individual desire for advancing anti-aging techniques, but it also seems to contain extremely real risks of stagnating our sciences & societies. I can't tell whether anti-aging science is ethical or not.
- card_zero 2y ago
  That's just a desire for a legal way to murder people (by waiting). It's entirely understandable, but we'll have to find another way.
  - coldpie 2y ago
    > we'll have to find another way You agree it is a problem, then. What are some solutions you can think of? I'm not convinced the gain is worth the pain, but maybe you have some ideas for me to think about.

singpolyma3 2y ago

It can be both

luc4sdreyer 2y ago

Animals eat their disabled children. Humans should also do it then, since it's normal or natural. Around 100k people die from age-related disease every day. I'd be careful to dismiss that as not a problem.

lm28469 2y ago
And them not dying would be an even bigger problem on pretty much every single metric I can think of
- mproud 2y ago
  Yes, people grow old, but I don’t think there’s a rational fear people will ever live forever. However, there are diseases and conditions that are age-related that if solved would improve people’s quality of life, especially the last decade or two of their lives.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
nirse 2y ago
I believe it would be a far greater problem if those people didn't die. Aging populations are a huge problem around the globe and unless we'd improve the quality of life to such a margin that octo- and nonagenarians are able to care for each other, I think we're all better off with people dying of old age.

Lerc 2y ago

Dying because I cannot function adequately due to poor vision is normal. Wearing crafted pieces of glass on my head every waking moment is not normal, but I choose to do it.

xboxnolifes 2y ago

We define normal by what is common and familiar. But that has no bearing on what ought to be. It's normal for half of all babies to die in the first year of their life. It's normal for an infected limb to commonly lead to death. Etc.