12 ms·

This is one of the cases I call reality mismatch: Through evolution we have been programmed to associate music with security of the group being nearby. Now we

by singularity2001 2y ago

This is one of the cases I call reality mismatch: Through evolution we have been programmed to associate music with security of the group being nearby. Now we can listen to music even though the group is very distant in time and space. Maybe it's not a complete reality mismatch because in a sense we are still close to the group through the Internet. However the positive feelings are over exaggerated given the limited modern benefits.

hackable_sand 2y ago
Did you mean to say "performance" instead of "music"? Either way, this sounds like vague popsci reasoning.
scop 2y ago
That’s a fascinating take. Music until very recently was indeed an incredibly social activity bound with layers of talent, leisure (purpose/meaning/security), belonging, etc. As people have been chatting about the Metaverse or AR I often quip that we’ve already had AR for awhile: headphones. The ubiquitous of AirPods, even amongst employees on the clock in recent years, has only reinforced my belief that we are already deep down the AR rabbit hole and seeing both the positive and negative effects. Augmented reality is great, but we still need to be grounded and able to act within reality. It’s the reality that must be our base, not the augmented part. The augmented should serve to improve reality, not replace.
- cryptopian 2y ago
  One of the most enjoyable musical experiences I had recently was on a choir exchange in Europe. We were at a concert afterparty with choirs from two other countries, exchanging drunken folk songs. Were we pleasant to listen to? Probably not. It was raucous and out of tune, but it was a bunch of people sharing something we loved.
  - moritzruth 2y ago
    That sounds beautiful.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    i had a similar experience in scouting. german scouting has a strong singing tradition to the point that there are regular competitions that attract groups from all over europe. also camps where multiple groups meet. imagine your after party experience every night for multiple days, maybe even a week or two.
  - scop 2y ago
    Singing in adult choirs has been one of my most spiritually and socially rewarding activities. You really feel a brother in arms with your fellow singers. Perhaps it is because singing is such an embarrassing activity in isolation, but then the sheer force of all the voices come together to make something of such power and beauty that you are incapable of replicating yourself. I’ll never forget the tenors I sang Faures Requiem or Beethoven 9th with.
- volkl48 2y ago
  We created office jobs that required sustained individual focus. The traditional (high-walled) cube farm may be ugly, but it's also one where an employee could often work at their desk with relatively few distractions. If you're not going to build private offices, they're not that awful of a compromise for enabling focus. Then in the past decade or two, we had the open-office trend, and changed the office to one full of endless visual and auditory distractions making focus difficult. Employees wearing headphones at work is an obvious attempt by many to reduce the distractions that bad office design has created.
  - AbstractH24 2y ago
    What’s the middle ground good design here?
em-bee 2y ago
i thought it is comparable to talking to my friends online instead of in person. in my case those friends are on a different continent. i do have local fiends too, but talking to my online friends is what keeps me connected to my the place where i grew up. (even though these friends are not from that time) interestingly, as someone who plays an instrument, i don't enjoy just listening to music as much because i'd rather play with friends
brudgers 2y ago
Some people don’t have strong bonds with groups and some people don’t have experiences where identifiable groups were a source of security. This is the experience of outsiders. People without tribe. There choice is not between bread and cake, but between bread and an empty belly.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  To be honest, I dont have a lot of time for complaints from such people. Maybe I am one, but the solution is to go live in a cabin and bake your own bread, not sit at the table looking for sympathy.
  - wiether 2y ago
    That seems to be an extreme reaction? They were just stating the reality of some people that don't necessarily chose to feel how they feel...
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      That wasn't my reading. It was the bread or death part that did for me. To me it seemed like melodramatic self pity, like the person complain that they had no other choice but go to the party but be alone. If someone hates company, they should go be a hermit, not show up and tell everyone about it. It's okay to be a loner or a hermit. If you're not doing it, then either you are choosing the trade offs or you don't actually want it. People should own their choices. Self pity and denial of agency are two of the most self destructive cognitive phenomenon.
      - brudgers 2y ago
        That wasn't my reading Indeed, it was your misreading.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Sure seemed melodramatic to me. care to explain the choice between bread and an empty belly in a way that isn't intended to garner sympathy? It is a pretty loaded metaphor.
DrillShopper 2y ago
There are a lot of things that I find wrong with Spotify, but one of the features it does have that I have found helpful is a feature where you can listen along using what Spotify calls a Jam: > Friends who join a Jam can listen and add songs to the queue together, whether in-person or virtually. > Note: Premium is needed to start and host a Jam. Free users can join and add songs to a Jam hosted by a Premium user, allowing for in-person Jams. This feature works also with smart speakers and most Bluetooth speakers. I've used this with online friends, and it's really good. If you use a voice chat app (we usually use Mumble) you can even talk while the music plays.

hackable_sand 2y ago

Did you mean to say "performance" instead of "music"? Either way, this sounds like vague popsci reasoning.

scop 2y ago

That’s a fascinating take. Music until very recently was indeed an incredibly social activity bound with layers of talent, leisure (purpose/meaning/security), belonging, etc. As people have been chatting about the Metaverse or AR I often quip that we’ve already had AR for awhile: headphones. The ubiquitous of AirPods, even amongst employees on the clock in recent years, has only reinforced my belief that we are already deep down the AR rabbit hole and seeing both the positive and negative effects. Augmented reality is great, but we still need to be grounded and able to act within reality. It’s the reality that must be our base, not the augmented part. The augmented should serve to improve reality, not replace.

cryptopian 2y ago
One of the most enjoyable musical experiences I had recently was on a choir exchange in Europe. We were at a concert afterparty with choirs from two other countries, exchanging drunken folk songs. Were we pleasant to listen to? Probably not. It was raucous and out of tune, but it was a bunch of people sharing something we loved.
- moritzruth 2y ago
  That sounds beautiful.
- em-bee 2y ago
  i had a similar experience in scouting. german scouting has a strong singing tradition to the point that there are regular competitions that attract groups from all over europe. also camps where multiple groups meet. imagine your after party experience every night for multiple days, maybe even a week or two.
- scop 2y ago
  Singing in adult choirs has been one of my most spiritually and socially rewarding activities. You really feel a brother in arms with your fellow singers. Perhaps it is because singing is such an embarrassing activity in isolation, but then the sheer force of all the voices come together to make something of such power and beauty that you are incapable of replicating yourself. I’ll never forget the tenors I sang Faures Requiem or Beethoven 9th with.
volkl48 2y ago
We created office jobs that required sustained individual focus. The traditional (high-walled) cube farm may be ugly, but it's also one where an employee could often work at their desk with relatively few distractions. If you're not going to build private offices, they're not that awful of a compromise for enabling focus. Then in the past decade or two, we had the open-office trend, and changed the office to one full of endless visual and auditory distractions making focus difficult. Employees wearing headphones at work is an obvious attempt by many to reduce the distractions that bad office design has created.
- AbstractH24 2y ago
  What’s the middle ground good design here?

em-bee 2y ago

i thought it is comparable to talking to my friends online instead of in person. in my case those friends are on a different continent. i do have local fiends too, but talking to my online friends is what keeps me connected to my the place where i grew up. (even though these friends are not from that time) interestingly, as someone who plays an instrument, i don't enjoy just listening to music as much because i'd rather play with friends

brudgers 2y ago

Some people don’t have strong bonds with groups and some people don’t have experiences where identifiable groups were a source of security. This is the experience of outsiders. People without tribe. There choice is not between bread and cake, but between bread and an empty belly.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
To be honest, I dont have a lot of time for complaints from such people. Maybe I am one, but the solution is to go live in a cabin and bake your own bread, not sit at the table looking for sympathy.
- wiether 2y ago
  That seems to be an extreme reaction? They were just stating the reality of some people that don't necessarily chose to feel how they feel...
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    That wasn't my reading. It was the bread or death part that did for me. To me it seemed like melodramatic self pity, like the person complain that they had no other choice but go to the party but be alone. If someone hates company, they should go be a hermit, not show up and tell everyone about it. It's okay to be a loner or a hermit. If you're not doing it, then either you are choosing the trade offs or you don't actually want it. People should own their choices. Self pity and denial of agency are two of the most self destructive cognitive phenomenon.
    - brudgers 2y ago
      That wasn't my reading Indeed, it was your misreading.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Sure seemed melodramatic to me. care to explain the choice between bread and an empty belly in a way that isn't intended to garner sympathy? It is a pretty loaded metaphor.

DrillShopper 2y ago

There are a lot of things that I find wrong with Spotify, but one of the features it does have that I have found helpful is a feature where you can listen along using what Spotify calls a Jam: > Friends who join a Jam can listen and add songs to the queue together, whether in-person or virtually. > Note: Premium is needed to start and host a Jam. Free users can join and add songs to a Jam hosted by a Premium user, allowing for in-person Jams. This feature works also with smart speakers and most Bluetooth speakers. I've used this with online friends, and it's really good. If you use a voice chat app (we usually use Mumble) you can even talk while the music plays.