3 ms·

> In western tradition governments exist to protect rights, such as the freedom of expression, not to grant them. You may be overgeneralizing here, only the US

> In western tradition governments exist to protect rights, such as the freedom of expression, not to grant them. You may be overgeneralizing here, only the US has enshrined freedom of expression in their constitution. Pretty much in any other western government such protections do not exist and freedom of expression has been under attack for a long time

shellac 2y ago
Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights is enshrined in legislation in the UK and Ireland, and offers protections for signatories of the convention. (Edit: Oh, and the Bill of Rights gives parliamentarians quite an extreme version)
- nelblu 2y ago
  Also Canada : https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-righ...
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    How were such freedoms protected during the trucker protests in Canada? That was not so long ago, and the government declared emergency powers to break the peaceful protests and freeze protesters' bank accounts.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  > Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights is enshrined in legislation in the UK and Ireland, and offers protections for signatories of the convention. it's enforced nowhere, since the European Convention on Human Rights has never attacked any of its members for putting people in jail or fining them for what they posted online. So, you can have all the laws on paper that you want, if nobody respects them, they might as well not exist.
  - ath3nd 2y ago
    > So, you can have all the laws on paper that you want, if nobody respects them, they might as well not exist. Are you talking about the US at the moment? - https://www.context.news/big-tech/us-prison-social-media-crackdown-plan-raises-free-speech-concerns https://www.context.news/big-tech/us-prison-social-media-cra... - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3rnzp4ye5zo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3rnzp4ye5zo - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/04/un-human-rights-expert-cellist-climate-protester https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/04/un-human-rig... Basically freedom of expression is fine, as long as you don't: - criticize the genocide that the US government is partial to (and funds) in Palestine - criticize the US government for backing out of all climate deals - criticize Trump for being orange and weird and Musk for being a robot? I wonder if in recent political history we can find a parallel with some parties in Germany and Italy in the past century.
ath3nd 2y ago
> You may be overgeneralizing here, only the US has enshrined freedom of expression in their constitution. Sounds very progressive considering voting for the African American population came about in 1965, and having McCarthyism in the 50s (which was basically persecution of free speech and freedom of expression, the same thing the Trump administration is doing atm). Freedom of expression being "enshrined" in the Constitution sounds good, but if it comes with no voting if I am black, and with being persecuted for leaning left, maybe that's not exactly "freedom of expression". - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

shellac 2y ago

Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights is enshrined in legislation in the UK and Ireland, and offers protections for signatories of the convention. (Edit: Oh, and the Bill of Rights gives parliamentarians quite an extreme version)

nelblu 2y ago
Also Canada : https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-righ...
- ekianjo 2y ago
  How were such freedoms protected during the trucker protests in Canada? That was not so long ago, and the government declared emergency powers to break the peaceful protests and freeze protesters' bank accounts.
ekianjo 2y ago
> Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights is enshrined in legislation in the UK and Ireland, and offers protections for signatories of the convention. it's enforced nowhere, since the European Convention on Human Rights has never attacked any of its members for putting people in jail or fining them for what they posted online. So, you can have all the laws on paper that you want, if nobody respects them, they might as well not exist.
- ath3nd 2y ago
  > So, you can have all the laws on paper that you want, if nobody respects them, they might as well not exist. Are you talking about the US at the moment? - https://www.context.news/big-tech/us-prison-social-media-crackdown-plan-raises-free-speech-concerns https://www.context.news/big-tech/us-prison-social-media-cra... - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3rnzp4ye5zo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3rnzp4ye5zo - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/04/un-human-rights-expert-cellist-climate-protester https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/04/un-human-rig... Basically freedom of expression is fine, as long as you don't: - criticize the genocide that the US government is partial to (and funds) in Palestine - criticize the US government for backing out of all climate deals - criticize Trump for being orange and weird and Musk for being a robot? I wonder if in recent political history we can find a parallel with some parties in Germany and Italy in the past century.

ath3nd 2y ago

> You may be overgeneralizing here, only the US has enshrined freedom of expression in their constitution. Sounds very progressive considering voting for the African American population came about in 1965, and having McCarthyism in the 50s (which was basically persecution of free speech and freedom of expression, the same thing the Trump administration is doing atm). Freedom of expression being "enshrined" in the Constitution sounds good, but if it comes with no voting if I am black, and with being persecuted for leaning left, maybe that's not exactly "freedom of expression". - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism