4 ms·

A lot of supporters of the trade restrictions don't care. They're working people who don't own a lot of stocks and all they've seen is their jobs sent overseas.

A lot of supporters of the trade restrictions don't care. They're working people who don't own a lot of stocks and all they've seen is their jobs sent overseas. To them, it doesn't even matter if things get "worse" for a while. Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable.

jgilias 2y ago
The unemployment rate is near historic lows. Apparently there’s plenty of jobs going round. Not that that’s going to last if actual economic headwinds hit the economy.
- 8note 2y ago
  labour participation rate is the number you want to be looking at - unemployment excludes people who have given up looking anectdotally, you dont see people dropping out of universities en masse because businesses are desperate for workers and willing to make it worth students while to put off or skip the education. you see that in and out in tech/software dev, but not across industries
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
  You believe the official government unemployment numbers? That's kind of like saying you believe the official government inflation numbers.
tmpz22 2y ago
> every economic headwind imaginable. Freaking what? Are they food insecure? Facing a military onslaught. Come on.
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
  This is quite an anti-worker comment. "They still have cereal and fast food and they're not getting shot so they're fine." LOL.
  - Goronmon 2y ago
    It's more that we shouldn't pretend that things could not be worse, which is what the person they were replying to was trying to say. Because things can definitely get worse.
    - bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
      > Because things can definitely get worse. Absolutely. If people don't want things to get worse, then the abuse and disenfranchisement of the American worker must end. That's kind of where we are at this point.
  - rubiquity 2y ago
    You're both painting polarized views. I'm from the rust belt where many of these disenfranchised can be found. Manufacturing isn't coming back. Tariffs are only going to increase the gap between the haves and the have-nots.
  - galangalalgol 2y ago
    I think the point was that these tariffs are hurting stocks because it is hurting workers, which hurts consumer spending. These tariffs are against workers primarily. The next time you see someone digging up a water main check their boots, the supervisor might be wearing Carhartt and Redwing, if they are a hipster, but the people who are muddy are typically wearing much cheaper imported equipment.
- jimbob45 2y ago
  Are they food insecure? You'll have been quoted on thirty different subreddits by the end of the week. This is hilariously tone deaf to the hardships many are facing.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    Absolutely tone-deaf, but there's a real point. "Things are terrible, so we have to do something!" No, you have to do something that will help. Just "doing something" isn't good enough. And if you think "things can't get any worse", yeah, they can. A lot worse. Don't make random changes just because things are bad. You need changes that will help, which is a lot harder.
- SteveNuts 2y ago
  The local food bank I donate to sends out a quarterly newsletter and the number of families it serves has more than quadrupled since 2020. I think this is the primary reason the Democrats have been losing, clearly voters are feeling economic hardship in a big way, and ignoring it or belittling the point is what lost voters. We can't focus on social issues when the hierarchy of needs isn't being met.
  - blackguardx 2y ago
    Historically a lot of Republicans have derided poverty statistics and poverty programs because the people on the programs “all have big screen TVs”[0]. I’m not sure the politics are as clear cut as you indicate. [0] https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/air-conditioning-cable-tv-and-xbox-what-poverty-the-united-states https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/air-c...
    - SteveNuts 2y ago
      I mean, I watched and participated in the US Election last year, it was extremely clear to me that Republicans focused on economy, and Democrats focused on social issues. The Republicans won, which is an indictment on the Democrats messaging in my opinion. I'm not even talking about the merits of which party has better ideas, or if people are voting against their own best interests. But I think the party that said they'd do "something" to make the economy better is the one that won. Why Democrats don't hammer on retraining and education so that more people can participate in the services and information economy confuses me greatly. Manufacturing isn't coming back, at least not immediately.
      - archagon 2y ago
        Republicans also spent many millions on anti-trans messaging.
      - acdha 2y ago
        > that Republicans focused on economy, and Democrats focused on social issues. That impression is partially an artifact of the information space disparity. Republicans spent a ton of time talking about social issues and the Democrats talked about lot about economic issues, but coverage of those things was wildly uneven. If you had any exposure to the Hispanic communities affected by deportations now, ask how many of the people making “I didn’t know he’d deport hard-working people like …” comments spent 2024 hearing a ton about how trans were threatening women or drag queens were grooming kids to be gay on WhatsApp/Telegram, and not coverage of the many, many times widespread deportation was promised. It’s almost a cliche to find people who thought they were voting for lower prices and are just now realizing that tariffs are taxes they pay, and that’s a function of where they get their news.
- bobsoap 2y ago
  Not OP, but a) "to them", and b) I would add that they are being nudged - ever so slightly - to believe in an exaggeration of the facts.
- mlinhares 2y ago
  Its a perspective thing. I saw an interview a couple weeks ago of a man in his 30s saying he finished high school and couldn't find a warehouse job like his father did and had been working odd jobs ever since. To my parents that was an unacceptable thing, had I finished high school and not done college (or some vocational school) I'm sure they would have kicked me out of their place. So not continuing my education was never an option, I had to, because from their perspective that was the only way. This other dude never had this, his dad worked an warehouse job at some big box store more likely, went up the chain there and made a decent living for his family. The expectation for the family was that if their kids had done the same, it would have been fine, he said his father never even finished high school, but that isn't reality anymore for most people and I don't think this has been a culturally set reality in the US. People were very much still expecting this would continue to be a thing but its very hard for you to do that in a place where there is very little manufacture and with so much tech taking over brick and mortar stores.
  - Izikiel43 2y ago
    > there is very little manufacture The US has a ton of manufacturing, but few manufacturing jobs, because they automated a lot of the aspects of production. This was one the biggest concerns by Andrew Yang when running for president, lack of good jobs because of automation takeover.
  - pixl97 2y ago
    The thing with tech taking over the world, is it's taking over the world everywhere and the last few places where labor is still cheap are employing humans. In so much stuff involving process automation if you go about building a new factory you're going to minimize your labor costs as much as possible. The only dumb jobs that remain pay very low and/or are back breaking, and everything else is a high tech job. On top of that process efficiency means that a single factory somewhere could easily produce all the product needed to meet world demand, the most difficult part would be meeting regulations in other countries. We are past the days where you need 20+ factories building the same thing in the US for most products. You build it in one place and put it on a truck with fast and cheap shipping. People will keep crying for a past that no longer exists while the world changes ever faster.
- margalabargala 2y ago
  I don't think the parent is seriously describing these people as actually facing every economic headwind, but is instead pointing out the lack of imagination on the part of the people supporting this policy.
Aurornis 2y ago
> Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable. Then they’ve failed to imagine how much more difficult their life will become under excessive tariffs. It’s also eye-opening to watch so many people in my extended family and social network cheer on DOGE and tariffs right until they impact their own jobs. Lot of people out there didn’t connect the dots about how their own jobs were going to be impacted by tariffs.
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
  > Then they’ve failed to imagine how much more difficult their life will become under excessive tariffs. Again, these workers don't have jobs. When the John Deere factory closes down in your town and moves to Mexico, tariffs sound good even if it's just to punish such companies and the abuse of their workers. If you're unemployed and living on whatever odd jobs and government assistance you can get, tariffs won't make one bit of difference in your life. Factories may even return, and your life may improve. It's better than just accepting your situation.
  - beanjuiceII 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - JonChesterfield 2y ago
    You might still notice the cost of everything you buy going up ~20%
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    > If you're unemployed and living on whatever odd jobs and government assistance you can get, tariffs won't make one bit of difference in your life. Categorically false. Tariffs raise prices for consumers. These tariffs will make it even harder for them to make ends meet.
    - ecommerceguy 2y ago
      [flagged]
richardw 2y ago
They don’t have to own stocks. If they like eating and buying household goods then this will affect them negatively. It will help very few people for a long time, even if it goes perfectly to plan. I’d be extremely surprised if other countries meekly do what Trump wants. There are many options on the table, and change is more likely in a crisis.
fullshark 2y ago
Agreed, Glenn Greenwald of all people had it pegged 8.5 years ago when Trump first won and with Brexit: https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/ https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-... https://archive.ph/tfd39 https://archive.ph/tfd39 I guess Vincent Bevins has the money quote: > Los Angeles Times’s Vincent Bevins, who wrote that “both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for 30 years.” Bevins went on: “Since the 1980s the elites in rich countries have overplayed their hand, taking all the gains for themselves and just covering their ears when anyone else talks, and now they are watching in horror as voters revolt.”
- kubb 2y ago
  The problem is that the actual solution is taxes and redistribution but if you try that, they’ll lynch you (the very people who would benefit most from it). Better to have weird Trumponomics than that.
  - slantedview 2y ago
    I don't know - we had more equitable taxes in the mid 20th century, and now that time is thought of as the golden age of America.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      I don't think it's that simple. First, the US economy was supercharged by virtue of being the only economy left humming along after WW2. Also, in the mid 20th century, the top income tax rate was 91%. Now it's 37%. Capital gains taxes were also much higher. The wealthy were taxed much more heavily during our economic boom times than now. It's not hard to think that having a more equitable distribution of wealth, not taxes, might have something to do with it.
- spacemadness 2y ago
  All the voters did is allow the elites in rich countries to buy the rest of the country on the cheap once the American economy crashes and burns.
raytopia 2y ago
It does matter if things get worse and it's very uncaring to say otherwise. The import taxes are going to make wealth inequality much worse and significantly hurt not just almost all American's but large swathes of the world too.
christianqchung 2y ago
> To them, it doesn't even matter if things get "worse" for a while. Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable. Really? How do you even know that? You think another round of price hikes within the year is unimaginable, which what the economic consensus on immediate tariffs this high predicts? The unemployment rate is 4%. The amount of liberation day tariff supporters is an order of magnitude higher than that. Pretending that things can't get worse is dangerous and stupid.
kubectl_h 2y ago
Plenty of his supporters are SMB owners or people that work in trades/factories. This is not a revolution of the indigent. What these people don't realize is even if they make 200K a year and drive an 85K financed F-250, they are effectively in the same class as someone making 50K a year managing a Dollar General. These people have no class awareness and they voted in a representative of the ultra wealthy intent on pillaging our economy. Some may believe that Trump will usher in some era of economic prosperity but they are wrong. On the other hand Trump will deliver on another, implicit promise to them, which is inflict pain and suffering on a great deal of people they dislike for whatever reason.
- tialaramex 2y ago
  > On the other hand Trump will deliver on another, implicit promise to them, which is inflict pain and suffering on a great deal of people they dislike for whatever reason. Not so implicit, "I will be your retribution". And this part is very much a normal Republican position. The realisation that Americans will vote for a policy which hurts them so long as it's positioned as hurting the people they hate was key to Republican success. "Nobody gets kicked in the head" loses in American politics if it's up against "Everybody gets kicked in the head, yes those awful people you don't like will get kicked in the head" And when your implementation "accidentally" forgets to kick the wealthy in the head? Well the important thing is you kicked people in the head - you're not one of those scum who don't want to kick the awful people in the head.
  - bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
    > Not so implicit, "I will be your retribution". I don't particularly like the idea of tariffs, but it is what it is. Having to put up with policies you don't like is simply the social consequence of applying unpopular policies for four years in the other direction. If the opposing party supports outsourcing, importing of labor, no protections for domestic industry, then they should expect retaliation from people who don't like those policies and who have the means to vote in someone who will push for whatever they view as corrective action. This is a democracy. If one party pushes unpopular policies (unpopular to the other side), don't be surprised with the opposition pushes back.
KerrAvon 2y ago
> Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable Horseshit. The most fervent Trump supporters are upper-middle class professionals who are bored with their lives. Hence the frequent boat parades for Trump. It's why the huge, expensive trucks are the ones flying the Trump flags. And practically all of them have 401ks, which means they are at least indirectly invested in stocks.
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
  That may be your lived experience, but it doesn't match the data.[1] The working class is shifting to Trump because his rhetoric matches what they want to see: trade restrictions, protections on domestic labor, and the return of good/stable manufacturing jobs. Trump is almost certainly not the best representation of the American worker, but he's winning because he, at least, tells them what they want to hear. [1] https://www.npr.org/2024/11/14/nx-s1-5183060/why-working-class-voters-have-been-shifting-toward-the-republican-party https://www.npr.org/2024/11/14/nx-s1-5183060/why-working-cla...
Izikiel43 2y ago
> Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable. Yet. Things can always get ~~worst~~ worse.
- rescripting 2y ago
  Things cannot get worst because they can always get worse.
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
  If people don't want things to continue to deteriorate, then the economic disenfranchisement of the American working class must be put to a stop. It's really pretty simple.
alephnerd 2y ago
> A lot of supporters of the trade restrictions don't care. They're working people who don't own a lot of stocks and all they've seen is their jobs sent overseas A lot of us were also in the market before the pandemic (aka before 4 years ago), so we remain in the green. Personally, it's a win-win. 1. Based on past tariff action, the current tariffs will not be repealed by any future administration - there is plenty of harsh feelings amongst some of us Dems who were IRA adjacent to France and Germany's lobbying against the Green New Deal and calling it "protectionism". 2. This plus DOGE has caused short term pain as reflected in the NY by-elections leading to Stefanik's nomination to the UN being pulled. 3. Those of us with some sympathy for economic nationalism but don't caucus GOP have been vindicated, but have a messaging tool now as well. 4. We can finally take the UAW and ILA national leadership behind a shed and pull a metaphorical old yeller. There's no point trying to make peace with National when much of their local leadership leans GOP. Makes it easier to concentrate on AZ, NV, and GA - states where the demographic and union makeup is completely orthogonal to the UAW and ILA's cadre. Makes it easier to help the AFL-CIO as well. 5. Sullivan and Raimondo's doctrine has been vindicated. Philippines, Brazil, Colombia, Malaysia, and India have now been made much more cost competitive than China or transshipment via Vietnam or Thailand - either you reduce transshipment from China or your competitors in apparel, textiles, and electronics are subsidized. Vietnam already has sent their Dy PM to negotiate as we speak to reduce tariffs. Europe also has no option but to diversify away from China as well. Either you fund a state selling intermediate parts to Russia in Ukraine, or start building domestic defense and industrial capabilities like that which existed before the 2000s (which they are now doing). ----- Already, some of my peers from my previous life have started testing the waters for a Dem equivalent of the Tea Party. Lot of realignment coming in the next 2 election cycles.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  curious what the Dem equivalent of the tea party means? Does that mean a libertarian streak before populist takeover, or is that meant more in terms of a critical voting block to extract concessions?
  - alephnerd 2y ago

jgilias 2y ago

The unemployment rate is near historic lows. Apparently there’s plenty of jobs going round. Not that that’s going to last if actual economic headwinds hit the economy.

8note 2y ago
labour participation rate is the number you want to be looking at - unemployment excludes people who have given up looking anectdotally, you dont see people dropping out of universities en masse because businesses are desperate for workers and willing to make it worth students while to put off or skip the education. you see that in and out in tech/software dev, but not across industries
bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
You believe the official government unemployment numbers? That's kind of like saying you believe the official government inflation numbers.

tmpz22 2y ago

> every economic headwind imaginable. Freaking what? Are they food insecure? Facing a military onslaught. Come on.

bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
This is quite an anti-worker comment. "They still have cereal and fast food and they're not getting shot so they're fine." LOL.
- Goronmon 2y ago
  It's more that we shouldn't pretend that things could not be worse, which is what the person they were replying to was trying to say. Because things can definitely get worse.
  - bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
    > Because things can definitely get worse. Absolutely. If people don't want things to get worse, then the abuse and disenfranchisement of the American worker must end. That's kind of where we are at this point.
- rubiquity 2y ago
  You're both painting polarized views. I'm from the rust belt where many of these disenfranchised can be found. Manufacturing isn't coming back. Tariffs are only going to increase the gap between the haves and the have-nots.
- galangalalgol 2y ago
  I think the point was that these tariffs are hurting stocks because it is hurting workers, which hurts consumer spending. These tariffs are against workers primarily. The next time you see someone digging up a water main check their boots, the supervisor might be wearing Carhartt and Redwing, if they are a hipster, but the people who are muddy are typically wearing much cheaper imported equipment.
jimbob45 2y ago
Are they food insecure? You'll have been quoted on thirty different subreddits by the end of the week. This is hilariously tone deaf to the hardships many are facing.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Absolutely tone-deaf, but there's a real point. "Things are terrible, so we have to do something!" No, you have to do something that will help. Just "doing something" isn't good enough. And if you think "things can't get any worse", yeah, they can. A lot worse. Don't make random changes just because things are bad. You need changes that will help, which is a lot harder.
SteveNuts 2y ago
The local food bank I donate to sends out a quarterly newsletter and the number of families it serves has more than quadrupled since 2020. I think this is the primary reason the Democrats have been losing, clearly voters are feeling economic hardship in a big way, and ignoring it or belittling the point is what lost voters. We can't focus on social issues when the hierarchy of needs isn't being met.
- blackguardx 2y ago
  Historically a lot of Republicans have derided poverty statistics and poverty programs because the people on the programs “all have big screen TVs”[0]. I’m not sure the politics are as clear cut as you indicate. [0] https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/air-conditioning-cable-tv-and-xbox-what-poverty-the-united-states https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/air-c...
  - SteveNuts 2y ago
    I mean, I watched and participated in the US Election last year, it was extremely clear to me that Republicans focused on economy, and Democrats focused on social issues. The Republicans won, which is an indictment on the Democrats messaging in my opinion. I'm not even talking about the merits of which party has better ideas, or if people are voting against their own best interests. But I think the party that said they'd do "something" to make the economy better is the one that won. Why Democrats don't hammer on retraining and education so that more people can participate in the services and information economy confuses me greatly. Manufacturing isn't coming back, at least not immediately.
    - archagon 2y ago
      Republicans also spent many millions on anti-trans messaging.
    - acdha 2y ago
      > that Republicans focused on economy, and Democrats focused on social issues. That impression is partially an artifact of the information space disparity. Republicans spent a ton of time talking about social issues and the Democrats talked about lot about economic issues, but coverage of those things was wildly uneven. If you had any exposure to the Hispanic communities affected by deportations now, ask how many of the people making “I didn’t know he’d deport hard-working people like …” comments spent 2024 hearing a ton about how trans were threatening women or drag queens were grooming kids to be gay on WhatsApp/Telegram, and not coverage of the many, many times widespread deportation was promised. It’s almost a cliche to find people who thought they were voting for lower prices and are just now realizing that tariffs are taxes they pay, and that’s a function of where they get their news.
bobsoap 2y ago
Not OP, but a) "to them", and b) I would add that they are being nudged - ever so slightly - to believe in an exaggeration of the facts.
mlinhares 2y ago
Its a perspective thing. I saw an interview a couple weeks ago of a man in his 30s saying he finished high school and couldn't find a warehouse job like his father did and had been working odd jobs ever since. To my parents that was an unacceptable thing, had I finished high school and not done college (or some vocational school) I'm sure they would have kicked me out of their place. So not continuing my education was never an option, I had to, because from their perspective that was the only way. This other dude never had this, his dad worked an warehouse job at some big box store more likely, went up the chain there and made a decent living for his family. The expectation for the family was that if their kids had done the same, it would have been fine, he said his father never even finished high school, but that isn't reality anymore for most people and I don't think this has been a culturally set reality in the US. People were very much still expecting this would continue to be a thing but its very hard for you to do that in a place where there is very little manufacture and with so much tech taking over brick and mortar stores.
- Izikiel43 2y ago
  > there is very little manufacture The US has a ton of manufacturing, but few manufacturing jobs, because they automated a lot of the aspects of production. This was one the biggest concerns by Andrew Yang when running for president, lack of good jobs because of automation takeover.
- pixl97 2y ago
  The thing with tech taking over the world, is it's taking over the world everywhere and the last few places where labor is still cheap are employing humans. In so much stuff involving process automation if you go about building a new factory you're going to minimize your labor costs as much as possible. The only dumb jobs that remain pay very low and/or are back breaking, and everything else is a high tech job. On top of that process efficiency means that a single factory somewhere could easily produce all the product needed to meet world demand, the most difficult part would be meeting regulations in other countries. We are past the days where you need 20+ factories building the same thing in the US for most products. You build it in one place and put it on a truck with fast and cheap shipping. People will keep crying for a past that no longer exists while the world changes ever faster.
margalabargala 2y ago
I don't think the parent is seriously describing these people as actually facing every economic headwind, but is instead pointing out the lack of imagination on the part of the people supporting this policy.

Aurornis 2y ago

> Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable. Then they’ve failed to imagine how much more difficult their life will become under excessive tariffs. It’s also eye-opening to watch so many people in my extended family and social network cheer on DOGE and tariffs right until they impact their own jobs. Lot of people out there didn’t connect the dots about how their own jobs were going to be impacted by tariffs.

bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
> Then they’ve failed to imagine how much more difficult their life will become under excessive tariffs. Again, these workers don't have jobs. When the John Deere factory closes down in your town and moves to Mexico, tariffs sound good even if it's just to punish such companies and the abuse of their workers. If you're unemployed and living on whatever odd jobs and government assistance you can get, tariffs won't make one bit of difference in your life. Factories may even return, and your life may improve. It's better than just accepting your situation.
- beanjuiceII 2y ago
  [flagged]
- JonChesterfield 2y ago
  You might still notice the cost of everything you buy going up ~20%
- Aurornis 2y ago
  > If you're unemployed and living on whatever odd jobs and government assistance you can get, tariffs won't make one bit of difference in your life. Categorically false. Tariffs raise prices for consumers. These tariffs will make it even harder for them to make ends meet.
  - ecommerceguy 2y ago
    [flagged]

richardw 2y ago

They don’t have to own stocks. If they like eating and buying household goods then this will affect them negatively. It will help very few people for a long time, even if it goes perfectly to plan. I’d be extremely surprised if other countries meekly do what Trump wants. There are many options on the table, and change is more likely in a crisis.

fullshark 2y ago

Agreed, Glenn Greenwald of all people had it pegged 8.5 years ago when Trump first won and with Brexit: https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/ https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-... https://archive.ph/tfd39 https://archive.ph/tfd39 I guess Vincent Bevins has the money quote: > Los Angeles Times’s Vincent Bevins, who wrote that “both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for 30 years.” Bevins went on: “Since the 1980s the elites in rich countries have overplayed their hand, taking all the gains for themselves and just covering their ears when anyone else talks, and now they are watching in horror as voters revolt.”

kubb 2y ago
The problem is that the actual solution is taxes and redistribution but if you try that, they’ll lynch you (the very people who would benefit most from it). Better to have weird Trumponomics than that.
- slantedview 2y ago
  I don't know - we had more equitable taxes in the mid 20th century, and now that time is thought of as the golden age of America.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    I don't think it's that simple. First, the US economy was supercharged by virtue of being the only economy left humming along after WW2. Also, in the mid 20th century, the top income tax rate was 91%. Now it's 37%. Capital gains taxes were also much higher. The wealthy were taxed much more heavily during our economic boom times than now. It's not hard to think that having a more equitable distribution of wealth, not taxes, might have something to do with it.
spacemadness 2y ago
All the voters did is allow the elites in rich countries to buy the rest of the country on the cheap once the American economy crashes and burns.

raytopia 2y ago

It does matter if things get worse and it's very uncaring to say otherwise. The import taxes are going to make wealth inequality much worse and significantly hurt not just almost all American's but large swathes of the world too.

christianqchung 2y ago

> To them, it doesn't even matter if things get "worse" for a while. Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable. Really? How do you even know that? You think another round of price hikes within the year is unimaginable, which what the economic consensus on immediate tariffs this high predicts? The unemployment rate is 4%. The amount of liberation day tariff supporters is an order of magnitude higher than that. Pretending that things can't get worse is dangerous and stupid.

kubectl_h 2y ago

Plenty of his supporters are SMB owners or people that work in trades/factories. This is not a revolution of the indigent. What these people don't realize is even if they make 200K a year and drive an 85K financed F-250, they are effectively in the same class as someone making 50K a year managing a Dollar General. These people have no class awareness and they voted in a representative of the ultra wealthy intent on pillaging our economy. Some may believe that Trump will usher in some era of economic prosperity but they are wrong. On the other hand Trump will deliver on another, implicit promise to them, which is inflict pain and suffering on a great deal of people they dislike for whatever reason.

tialaramex 2y ago
> On the other hand Trump will deliver on another, implicit promise to them, which is inflict pain and suffering on a great deal of people they dislike for whatever reason. Not so implicit, "I will be your retribution". And this part is very much a normal Republican position. The realisation that Americans will vote for a policy which hurts them so long as it's positioned as hurting the people they hate was key to Republican success. "Nobody gets kicked in the head" loses in American politics if it's up against "Everybody gets kicked in the head, yes those awful people you don't like will get kicked in the head" And when your implementation "accidentally" forgets to kick the wealthy in the head? Well the important thing is you kicked people in the head - you're not one of those scum who don't want to kick the awful people in the head.
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
  > Not so implicit, "I will be your retribution". I don't particularly like the idea of tariffs, but it is what it is. Having to put up with policies you don't like is simply the social consequence of applying unpopular policies for four years in the other direction. If the opposing party supports outsourcing, importing of labor, no protections for domestic industry, then they should expect retaliation from people who don't like those policies and who have the means to vote in someone who will push for whatever they view as corrective action. This is a democracy. If one party pushes unpopular policies (unpopular to the other side), don't be surprised with the opposition pushes back.

KerrAvon 2y ago

> Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable Horseshit. The most fervent Trump supporters are upper-middle class professionals who are bored with their lives. Hence the frequent boat parades for Trump. It's why the huge, expensive trucks are the ones flying the Trump flags. And practically all of them have 401ks, which means they are at least indirectly invested in stocks.

bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
That may be your lived experience, but it doesn't match the data.[1] The working class is shifting to Trump because his rhetoric matches what they want to see: trade restrictions, protections on domestic labor, and the return of good/stable manufacturing jobs. Trump is almost certainly not the best representation of the American worker, but he's winning because he, at least, tells them what they want to hear. [1] https://www.npr.org/2024/11/14/nx-s1-5183060/why-working-class-voters-have-been-shifting-toward-the-republican-party https://www.npr.org/2024/11/14/nx-s1-5183060/why-working-cla...

Izikiel43 2y ago

> Their life is already meeting every economic headwind imaginable. Yet. Things can always get ~~worst~~ worse.

rescripting 2y ago
Things cannot get worst because they can always get worse.
bill_joy_fanboy 2y ago
If people don't want things to continue to deteriorate, then the economic disenfranchisement of the American working class must be put to a stop. It's really pretty simple.

alephnerd 2y ago

> A lot of supporters of the trade restrictions don't care. They're working people who don't own a lot of stocks and all they've seen is their jobs sent overseas A lot of us were also in the market before the pandemic (aka before 4 years ago), so we remain in the green. Personally, it's a win-win. 1. Based on past tariff action, the current tariffs will not be repealed by any future administration - there is plenty of harsh feelings amongst some of us Dems who were IRA adjacent to France and Germany's lobbying against the Green New Deal and calling it "protectionism". 2. This plus DOGE has caused short term pain as reflected in the NY by-elections leading to Stefanik's nomination to the UN being pulled. 3. Those of us with some sympathy for economic nationalism but don't caucus GOP have been vindicated, but have a messaging tool now as well. 4. We can finally take the UAW and ILA national leadership behind a shed and pull a metaphorical old yeller. There's no point trying to make peace with National when much of their local leadership leans GOP. Makes it easier to concentrate on AZ, NV, and GA - states where the demographic and union makeup is completely orthogonal to the UAW and ILA's cadre. Makes it easier to help the AFL-CIO as well. 5. Sullivan and Raimondo's doctrine has been vindicated. Philippines, Brazil, Colombia, Malaysia, and India have now been made much more cost competitive than China or transshipment via Vietnam or Thailand - either you reduce transshipment from China or your competitors in apparel, textiles, and electronics are subsidized. Vietnam already has sent their Dy PM to negotiate as we speak to reduce tariffs. Europe also has no option but to diversify away from China as well. Either you fund a state selling intermediate parts to Russia in Ukraine, or start building domestic defense and industrial capabilities like that which existed before the 2000s (which they are now doing). ----- Already, some of my peers from my previous life have started testing the waters for a Dem equivalent of the Tea Party. Lot of realignment coming in the next 2 election cycles.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
curious what the Dem equivalent of the tea party means? Does that mean a libertarian streak before populist takeover, or is that meant more in terms of a critical voting block to extract concessions?
- alephnerd 2y ago