4 ms·

I disagree with this. Jan 6th didn’t affect 99% of peoples lives directly. It was clearly bad, but few people saw impacts in their own lives. Higher prices and

I disagree with this. Jan 6th didn’t affect 99% of peoples lives directly. It was clearly bad, but few people saw impacts in their own lives. Higher prices and a possible recession will affect every person in the country and even globally. His MAGA base might not blame him, but that’s only like 30-40% of the electorate. The other 60-70% won’t be happy if their lives are negatively impacted.

superconduct123 1y ago
That's the thing, there is an almost impenetrable media wall that no amount of "this is bad" news articles can get through IMO the only thing that can get through is actual personal consequences for the voter themself
- NickM 1y ago
  IMO the only thing that can get through is actual personal consequences for the voter themself Well, yes. And his approval rating has been steadily declining in tandem with the stock market declines he's caused. If/when prices suddenly skyrocket because of tariffs, you can bet his approval ratings will decline further.
- watwut 1y ago
  They will blame left, democrats, immigrants, women and Canada for that. They will not blame Trump, republicans, conservatives nor anyone who work foe them.
- gamblor956 1y ago
  That won't work. WaPo, LAT, etc. have run numerous articles where MAGA voters talk about the consequences of his actions to them or immediate family members (getting laid off, losing medical coverage, deportation, etc.) and they say it's worth the sacrifice because they just know that Trump is actually looking out for them and won't let them suffer for too long.
  - brokencode 1y ago
    There are millions of voters who voted for Biden in 2020 and either sat out or voted for Trump in 2024. Not everybody is part of the cult. Many people simply thought Trump would take the economy and prices back to 2019. If he doesn’t, he’ll be punished.
- TaurenHunter 1y ago
  That must be why some people are keying Teslas and even resorting to arson.
- kcplate 1y ago
  Which will be exactly what for the standard middle class person? CBS published this list: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/which-products-most-affected-tariffs/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/which-products-most-affected-ta... What exactly on this list is a day to day item that is going to adversely affect the middle class/blue collar Trump voter enough to cause them to flip their alliance? On that list maybe clothes and shoes. But even still those are generally bought only a couple of times a year and any increase will be griped about in the moment, but come election time will be forgotten. There are only four things that will make a middle class voter feel pain enough to re-align their vote. Fuel/energy costs, general food costs, rent/housing costs, and job insecurity. If these tariffs do not adversely touch those areas, they will have little to no impact on switching votes. Also of note, over the last four years those items are the ones that drove Trump back into the Oval Office.
  - dudefeliciano 1y ago
    Middle class people also have to buy new cars, maybe want to treat themselves with some foreign alcohol, they still need furniture, coffee is still one of the most traded commodities in the world and americans guzzle it down.
    - Yeul 1y ago
      Yep what sets middle class apart from lower class is consumption. But the lower class will also feel the tariffs. Because the lower class needs that $9.99 sweat pants.
    - kcplate 1y ago
      New cars - They are not purchased very often by the middle class and they will lean domestic if they desire new or buy foreign cars on the used market if they really desire them. Foreign Alcohol as a treat - If it’s a “treat” it’s already likely a more expensive choice than a domestic equivalent and any cost increase becomes part of the luxury of it being a treat. If your $60 bottle of Italian wine that you occasionally treat yourself with is now $80, you won’t really notice that $20. If you do, maybe you opt for a better domestic instead. If the $20 california wine you daily drink becomes $30, you notice that. But I assert that there is quite a bit of exceptional alcohol produced in the US and the middle class electorate is not going to starve for decent alcohol. Furniture - Like cars, this is not a regular purchase and frankly not one where a price comparison with a prior purchase of a similar item will really notice any price increase due to tariffs. How often do you replace a dinner table? 10 years? Of course it’s more expensive than the last time you needed one. Coffee is the one example where you have daily consumption and like I said on my original comment, food is one area that if affected, people will notice.
ModernMech 1y ago
> It was clearly bad, but few people saw impacts in their own lives. It did though, they just didn't know how to measure it, and it wasn't felt immediately. It was like the flash of light that dazzles before the pressure wave of the nuclear bomb blasts everything (which in the analogy is this moment, now). What happened on Jan 6, and in the leadup and response to it, was the erosion of democratic norms. Before Nov 2020 they were stronger, and after Jan 6 they were significantly weakened. Our institutions are essentially built on trust, and Trump in his campaign to overturn the 2020 election spent every waking moment for months attacking those foundations. He purposefully eroded people's trust in Democracy for no reason, because there ultimately the fraud he alleged in that election was not found. That impacts everyone. They just don't feel it in the supermarket; they just have no "democracy meter" that they can use to gauge how healthy their representation is in government. But the reason he's able to do what he's doing now is he because he laid the foundation in 2020.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- recoup-papyrus 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - brokencode 1y ago
    What in your mind should have happened differently in response to Jan 6? No widespread fraud was ever proven that could have swayed the election. Should we have pretended there were major flaws with our voting system just to help you with your feelings? Or maybe we should have let Trump be president again for no reason just because you were really upset about it. And did you ever wonder why, if Democrats were able to magically steal the election in even red states like Georgia and Arizona in 2020, they didn’t bother to try it again in 2024?
    - recoup-papyrus 1y ago
      The elite reaction to January 6th was just raw hostility towards the American nation. I don't claim to have access to secret knowledge about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the elections. My view on the actual election fraud claims is agnosticism. I have no access to information that would allow me to independently come to any conclusion on the matter. However, a large volume of very plausible evidence was put forward. And, instead of honest engagement with those concerns, we got extreme censorship, gas lighting, and a violent crack-down on everyone involved. We cannot allow people that have this attitude towards us to continue to rule over us.
digestm 1y ago
Don't expect much. Modi's overnight demonetization of Rs. 1,000 bills back in 2016, caused a lot of inconvenience to almost all the Indians for 3/4 months at-least. Demonetization and flawed implementation of GST caused many small scale companies to shut doors. With media in their pockets they can get away with anything.
- TaurenHunter 1y ago
  The sheer majority of media has always opposed Trump though.

superconduct123 1y ago

That's the thing, there is an almost impenetrable media wall that no amount of "this is bad" news articles can get through IMO the only thing that can get through is actual personal consequences for the voter themself

NickM 1y ago
IMO the only thing that can get through is actual personal consequences for the voter themself Well, yes. And his approval rating has been steadily declining in tandem with the stock market declines he's caused. If/when prices suddenly skyrocket because of tariffs, you can bet his approval ratings will decline further.
watwut 1y ago
They will blame left, democrats, immigrants, women and Canada for that. They will not blame Trump, republicans, conservatives nor anyone who work foe them.
gamblor956 1y ago
That won't work. WaPo, LAT, etc. have run numerous articles where MAGA voters talk about the consequences of his actions to them or immediate family members (getting laid off, losing medical coverage, deportation, etc.) and they say it's worth the sacrifice because they just know that Trump is actually looking out for them and won't let them suffer for too long.
- brokencode 1y ago
  There are millions of voters who voted for Biden in 2020 and either sat out or voted for Trump in 2024. Not everybody is part of the cult. Many people simply thought Trump would take the economy and prices back to 2019. If he doesn’t, he’ll be punished.
TaurenHunter 1y ago
That must be why some people are keying Teslas and even resorting to arson.
kcplate 1y ago
Which will be exactly what for the standard middle class person? CBS published this list: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/which-products-most-affected-tariffs/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/which-products-most-affected-ta... What exactly on this list is a day to day item that is going to adversely affect the middle class/blue collar Trump voter enough to cause them to flip their alliance? On that list maybe clothes and shoes. But even still those are generally bought only a couple of times a year and any increase will be griped about in the moment, but come election time will be forgotten. There are only four things that will make a middle class voter feel pain enough to re-align their vote. Fuel/energy costs, general food costs, rent/housing costs, and job insecurity. If these tariffs do not adversely touch those areas, they will have little to no impact on switching votes. Also of note, over the last four years those items are the ones that drove Trump back into the Oval Office.
- dudefeliciano 1y ago
  Middle class people also have to buy new cars, maybe want to treat themselves with some foreign alcohol, they still need furniture, coffee is still one of the most traded commodities in the world and americans guzzle it down.
  - Yeul 1y ago
    Yep what sets middle class apart from lower class is consumption. But the lower class will also feel the tariffs. Because the lower class needs that $9.99 sweat pants.
  - kcplate 1y ago
    New cars - They are not purchased very often by the middle class and they will lean domestic if they desire new or buy foreign cars on the used market if they really desire them. Foreign Alcohol as a treat - If it’s a “treat” it’s already likely a more expensive choice than a domestic equivalent and any cost increase becomes part of the luxury of it being a treat. If your $60 bottle of Italian wine that you occasionally treat yourself with is now $80, you won’t really notice that $20. If you do, maybe you opt for a better domestic instead. If the $20 california wine you daily drink becomes $30, you notice that. But I assert that there is quite a bit of exceptional alcohol produced in the US and the middle class electorate is not going to starve for decent alcohol. Furniture - Like cars, this is not a regular purchase and frankly not one where a price comparison with a prior purchase of a similar item will really notice any price increase due to tariffs. How often do you replace a dinner table? 10 years? Of course it’s more expensive than the last time you needed one. Coffee is the one example where you have daily consumption and like I said on my original comment, food is one area that if affected, people will notice.

ModernMech 1y ago

> It was clearly bad, but few people saw impacts in their own lives. It did though, they just didn't know how to measure it, and it wasn't felt immediately. It was like the flash of light that dazzles before the pressure wave of the nuclear bomb blasts everything (which in the analogy is this moment, now). What happened on Jan 6, and in the leadup and response to it, was the erosion of democratic norms. Before Nov 2020 they were stronger, and after Jan 6 they were significantly weakened. Our institutions are essentially built on trust, and Trump in his campaign to overturn the 2020 election spent every waking moment for months attacking those foundations. He purposefully eroded people's trust in Democracy for no reason, because there ultimately the fraud he alleged in that election was not found. That impacts everyone. They just don't feel it in the supermarket; they just have no "democracy meter" that they can use to gauge how healthy their representation is in government. But the reason he's able to do what he's doing now is he because he laid the foundation in 2020.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
recoup-papyrus 1y ago
[flagged]
- brokencode 1y ago
  What in your mind should have happened differently in response to Jan 6? No widespread fraud was ever proven that could have swayed the election. Should we have pretended there were major flaws with our voting system just to help you with your feelings? Or maybe we should have let Trump be president again for no reason just because you were really upset about it. And did you ever wonder why, if Democrats were able to magically steal the election in even red states like Georgia and Arizona in 2020, they didn’t bother to try it again in 2024?
  - recoup-papyrus 1y ago
    The elite reaction to January 6th was just raw hostility towards the American nation. I don't claim to have access to secret knowledge about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the elections. My view on the actual election fraud claims is agnosticism. I have no access to information that would allow me to independently come to any conclusion on the matter. However, a large volume of very plausible evidence was put forward. And, instead of honest engagement with those concerns, we got extreme censorship, gas lighting, and a violent crack-down on everyone involved. We cannot allow people that have this attitude towards us to continue to rule over us.

digestm 1y ago

Don't expect much. Modi's overnight demonetization of Rs. 1,000 bills back in 2016, caused a lot of inconvenience to almost all the Indians for 3/4 months at-least. Demonetization and flawed implementation of GST caused many small scale companies to shut doors. With media in their pockets they can get away with anything.

TaurenHunter 1y ago
The sheer majority of media has always opposed Trump though.