6 ms·

My TEDx Talk about Entrepreneurial Depression / Happiness

150 points by SteliE 14y ago

kevinlu 14y ago
This is a great and inspiring talk. Thanks.
- SteliE 14y ago
  Appreciate the kind words :) Happy you liked it!
  - jsmcgd 14y ago
    I agree, great talk. Sorry but I can't help be curious about this, what were the results of the drinking game?
    - SteliE 14y ago
      Thanks! :) Unfortunately I can't publicly tell that part of the story yet. But ping me at steli@elasticsales.com if you really wanna know ;)
cheez 14y ago
I don't think you ever truly get over a burnout like that, especially not if it has any long lasting effects. Too much was familiar to me a couple of years ago. Glad it is not so anymore.
- ivancdg 14y ago
  Jacques Mattheij's blog posts on burnout are very helpful. I recommend reading them and re-reading them: http://jacquesmattheij.com/Are+you+suffering+from+burn-out http://jacquesmattheij.com/Are+you+suffering+from+burn-out http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing+with+burn+out http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing+with+burn+out There are various useful discussions in the HN archives, including this one: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2300244 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2300244 mrcharles's comment rings in my head to this day: "The first thing I've learned is that I can't accurately judge my limits."
randomdrake 14y ago
Nicely done SteliE. I particularly enjoyed the part towards the end where you discovered meditation was a useful tool. I discovered the same thing a couple years ago; recently, I haven't been meditating enough. The value of it being able to clear all the things from your mind and to try hard to just exist without everything else is extremely calming and, in my opinion, necessary. I really need to start doing it again and you've inspired me to start. Being happy is the only thing that really matters at the end of the day. Thanks for sharing.
- ak39 14y ago
  While I would agree that meditation helps to introspect and obtain perspective, I don't think that aiming for happiness (of itself) is meaningful at all. Yikes, I meant ... you cannot pursue happiness for happiness' sake. It's a byproduct of living. Happiness is an oblique outcome of being - of existing. I like what Robert Oppenheimer wrote to his brother Frank in one of his letters: "Everyone wants rather to be pleasing to women and that desire is not altogether, though it is very largely, a manifestation of vanity. But one cannot aim to be pleasing to women any more than one can aim to have taste, or beauty of expression, or happiness; for these things are not specific aims which one may learn to attain; they are descriptions of the adequacy of one's living. To try to be happy is to try to build a machine with no other specification than that it shall run noiselessly." ~ Robert Oppenheimer
  - macey 14y ago
    Interesting point. Though I have to interject that the origin of happiness is so different from person to person that it is sort of silly to make any kind of generalization. In fact, I've read longitudinal studies on happiness that conclude that a person's happiness remains relatively static throughout their life, which provides substantial evidence for happiness being the result of genetics and temperament. Still, as far as I'm concerned, there's no good argument against aiming to understand what makes you feel happy and fulfilled, and keeping that magic thing in the forefront of your goals forever.
    - 14y ago
nugget 14y ago
I think this is a very under talked-about topic in Silicon Valley. I'm on my third startup after two successful exits and still deal with the "roller coaster" of emotions related to work in this field. I don't think it ever really subsides, at least not for certain people. Like others mentioned I found meditation very useful. Also, I watch Stephen Hawking's documentary called something like "A Brief History of Everything" and this provides me relief as I'm reminded that eventually the sun will cool, the earth will implode, and all living beings who ever existed will return to the atomic ether.
- AznHisoka 14y ago
  so my ex-girlfriend and her new relationship will eventually die out too? That's a relief...
  - tinco 14y ago
    They might, but their undying love will never subside.
rdudekul 14y ago
Three points that stood out for me were: 1) meditate 2) work on one thing that matters the most for today 3) know that you have good options even if your startup fails In essence through meditation entrepreneurs can bring forth deep resources from the subconscious, through one pointed attention they can complete tasks that matter and by putting others first, deliver right value at the right price. I am an entrepreneur too and the way I keep my balance is follow the eight point passage meditation program (http://www.easwaran.org/the-eight-point-program.html http://www.easwaran.org/the-eight-point-program.html).
raju 14y ago
Very very nice. Great job SteliE. I used to meditate every day, and have fallen off the wagon lately. This reminded me to get back in the practice. That alone was worth it. I am no entrepreneur (yet) but I think your advice applies well to life in general - it's just a ride - many things that we fret over today won't matter 5 years from now - this, along with "what's the worst that could happen?" can help put many things in perspective. Congrats on getting married, and your first-born :)
- SteliE 14y ago
  Thanks sir! :) Appreciate the kind words & wishes!
niels_olson 14y ago
Good talk. Your method of writing down what the worst case scenario falls in line with what is known as cognitive-behavioral therapy, which is the recommended method of working through mild-to-moderate depressive episodes. In fact, as a physician observing the HN community, I have acquired a folder of bookmarks, "Depression in Entrepreneurs", mainly centered around Andrews and Thomson's analytic-rheumination hypothesis, which highlights exactly that component of CBT as the cornerstone of successful coping: identify the problems, the worst possible outcomes, prioritize, and start working through them. My brief summary of the AR hypothesis ======= Your hippocampus, home of working memory, gets overwhelmed with all the problems. Something like this: ==== It's still crashing!? Wait, I have that widget sitting in /usr/bin still. I'm so hungry. Maybe I should take ritalin, I wouldn't be hungry. My girlfriend is totally pissed because I haven't taken her out in forever. I have to make payroll, but I can't quite do that unless I skip some meals, I can't tell Mr Investor that I can't go to lunch, because I need money. I can't talk to my girlfriend about Investor's lunch because it will just remind her .... shit, was that in /usr/bin or /sbin. Payroll. Lunch. LUNCH! I'M LATE FOR LUNCH WITH MR INVESTOR! AND THE SITE IS DOWN!!!! GREP! WHY DID I CHOOSE BSD! ==== So, CBT is a hack, which shunts some of that linguistic processing over to the only other area that does linguistic processing: Broca's area. But you need to verbalize to activate Broca's area. So you need to talk to someone. But not someone who's got a dog in the fight, not your girlfriend, not Mr Investor, not employee #1, not your business partner. Because then you'd just be doubling the load on your hippocampus again. So, talk to a counselor, priest, somebody who doesn't have a dog in the fight. Explicitly enumerate your problems, worst case scenarios, and some branches and sequels. ======= Here's the current contents of that folder, if anyone wants them... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2734449/pdf/nihms129978.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2734449/pdf/nihm... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/opinion/sunday/how-depressed-people-use-the-internet.html?_r=1&hp http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/opinion/sunday/how-depress... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/magazine/28depression-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/magazine/28depression-t.ht... http://muddylemon.com/2011/05/depression-burn-out-and-writing-code/ http://muddylemon.com/2011/05/depression-burn-out-and-writin... http://blog.asmartbear.com/burn-out.html http://blog.asmartbear.com/burn-out.html and newly added: https://elasticsales.com/blog/2012/08/03/entrepreneurial-depression-happiness/ https://elasticsales.com/blog/2012/08/03/entrepreneurial-dep...
p1niu 14y ago
One of the greatest speaches I've heard recently. The work/life balance problems are so common among us entrepreneurs. For me the solution was to start jogging regularly - it's almost like meditation and you can just run and not think about your next problem to be solved. I also like your comment about being happy. Perhaps it may sound a bit hedonistic, but it really is the most important thing in live! Well done.
jayliew 14y ago
Steli means it when he roots for the entrepreneur - first hand experience here. Thanks Steli! :)
natarius 14y ago
I feel you man...great talk!
lmirosevic 14y ago
Really great talk. Thanks! You hear a lot of people talking about how to succeed more, faster, etc. but very few people seem to mention all the little side effects of being a die hard entrepreneur, or how to deal with them.

150 points by SteliE 14y ago

kevinlu 14y ago

This is a great and inspiring talk. Thanks.

SteliE 14y ago
Appreciate the kind words :) Happy you liked it!
- jsmcgd 14y ago
  I agree, great talk. Sorry but I can't help be curious about this, what were the results of the drinking game?
  - SteliE 14y ago
    Thanks! :) Unfortunately I can't publicly tell that part of the story yet. But ping me at steli@elasticsales.com if you really wanna know ;)

cheez 14y ago

I don't think you ever truly get over a burnout like that, especially not if it has any long lasting effects. Too much was familiar to me a couple of years ago. Glad it is not so anymore.

ivancdg 14y ago
Jacques Mattheij's blog posts on burnout are very helpful. I recommend reading them and re-reading them: http://jacquesmattheij.com/Are+you+suffering+from+burn-out http://jacquesmattheij.com/Are+you+suffering+from+burn-out http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing+with+burn+out http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing+with+burn+out There are various useful discussions in the HN archives, including this one: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2300244 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2300244 mrcharles's comment rings in my head to this day: "The first thing I've learned is that I can't accurately judge my limits."

randomdrake 14y ago

Nicely done SteliE. I particularly enjoyed the part towards the end where you discovered meditation was a useful tool. I discovered the same thing a couple years ago; recently, I haven't been meditating enough. The value of it being able to clear all the things from your mind and to try hard to just exist without everything else is extremely calming and, in my opinion, necessary. I really need to start doing it again and you've inspired me to start. Being happy is the only thing that really matters at the end of the day. Thanks for sharing.

ak39 14y ago
While I would agree that meditation helps to introspect and obtain perspective, I don't think that aiming for happiness (of itself) is meaningful at all. Yikes, I meant ... you cannot pursue happiness for happiness' sake. It's a byproduct of living. Happiness is an oblique outcome of being - of existing. I like what Robert Oppenheimer wrote to his brother Frank in one of his letters: "Everyone wants rather to be pleasing to women and that desire is not altogether, though it is very largely, a manifestation of vanity. But one cannot aim to be pleasing to women any more than one can aim to have taste, or beauty of expression, or happiness; for these things are not specific aims which one may learn to attain; they are descriptions of the adequacy of one's living. To try to be happy is to try to build a machine with no other specification than that it shall run noiselessly." ~ Robert Oppenheimer
- macey 14y ago
  Interesting point. Though I have to interject that the origin of happiness is so different from person to person that it is sort of silly to make any kind of generalization. In fact, I've read longitudinal studies on happiness that conclude that a person's happiness remains relatively static throughout their life, which provides substantial evidence for happiness being the result of genetics and temperament. Still, as far as I'm concerned, there's no good argument against aiming to understand what makes you feel happy and fulfilled, and keeping that magic thing in the forefront of your goals forever.
  - 14y ago

nugget 14y ago

I think this is a very under talked-about topic in Silicon Valley. I'm on my third startup after two successful exits and still deal with the "roller coaster" of emotions related to work in this field. I don't think it ever really subsides, at least not for certain people. Like others mentioned I found meditation very useful. Also, I watch Stephen Hawking's documentary called something like "A Brief History of Everything" and this provides me relief as I'm reminded that eventually the sun will cool, the earth will implode, and all living beings who ever existed will return to the atomic ether.

AznHisoka 14y ago
so my ex-girlfriend and her new relationship will eventually die out too? That's a relief...
- tinco 14y ago
  They might, but their undying love will never subside.

rdudekul 14y ago

Three points that stood out for me were: 1) meditate 2) work on one thing that matters the most for today 3) know that you have good options even if your startup fails In essence through meditation entrepreneurs can bring forth deep resources from the subconscious, through one pointed attention they can complete tasks that matter and by putting others first, deliver right value at the right price. I am an entrepreneur too and the way I keep my balance is follow the eight point passage meditation program (http://www.easwaran.org/the-eight-point-program.html http://www.easwaran.org/the-eight-point-program.html).

raju 14y ago

Very very nice. Great job SteliE. I used to meditate every day, and have fallen off the wagon lately. This reminded me to get back in the practice. That alone was worth it. I am no entrepreneur (yet) but I think your advice applies well to life in general - it's just a ride - many things that we fret over today won't matter 5 years from now - this, along with "what's the worst that could happen?" can help put many things in perspective. Congrats on getting married, and your first-born :)

SteliE 14y ago
Thanks sir! :) Appreciate the kind words & wishes!

niels_olson 14y ago

Good talk. Your method of writing down what the worst case scenario falls in line with what is known as cognitive-behavioral therapy, which is the recommended method of working through mild-to-moderate depressive episodes. In fact, as a physician observing the HN community, I have acquired a folder of bookmarks, "Depression in Entrepreneurs", mainly centered around Andrews and Thomson's analytic-rheumination hypothesis, which highlights exactly that component of CBT as the cornerstone of successful coping: identify the problems, the worst possible outcomes, prioritize, and start working through them. My brief summary of the AR hypothesis ======= Your hippocampus, home of working memory, gets overwhelmed with all the problems. Something like this: ==== It's still crashing!? Wait, I have that widget sitting in /usr/bin still. I'm so hungry. Maybe I should take ritalin, I wouldn't be hungry. My girlfriend is totally pissed because I haven't taken her out in forever. I have to make payroll, but I can't quite do that unless I skip some meals, I can't tell Mr Investor that I can't go to lunch, because I need money. I can't talk to my girlfriend about Investor's lunch because it will just remind her .... shit, was that in /usr/bin or /sbin. Payroll. Lunch. LUNCH! I'M LATE FOR LUNCH WITH MR INVESTOR! AND THE SITE IS DOWN!!!! GREP! WHY DID I CHOOSE BSD! ==== So, CBT is a hack, which shunts some of that linguistic processing over to the only other area that does linguistic processing: Broca's area. But you need to verbalize to activate Broca's area. So you need to talk to someone. But not someone who's got a dog in the fight, not your girlfriend, not Mr Investor, not employee #1, not your business partner. Because then you'd just be doubling the load on your hippocampus again. So, talk to a counselor, priest, somebody who doesn't have a dog in the fight. Explicitly enumerate your problems, worst case scenarios, and some branches and sequels. ======= Here's the current contents of that folder, if anyone wants them... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2734449/pdf/nihms129978.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2734449/pdf/nihm... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/opinion/sunday/how-depressed-people-use-the-internet.html?_r=1&hp http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/opinion/sunday/how-depress... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/magazine/28depression-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/magazine/28depression-t.ht... http://muddylemon.com/2011/05/depression-burn-out-and-writing-code/ http://muddylemon.com/2011/05/depression-burn-out-and-writin... http://blog.asmartbear.com/burn-out.html http://blog.asmartbear.com/burn-out.html and newly added: https://elasticsales.com/blog/2012/08/03/entrepreneurial-depression-happiness/ https://elasticsales.com/blog/2012/08/03/entrepreneurial-dep...

p1niu 14y ago

One of the greatest speaches I've heard recently. The work/life balance problems are so common among us entrepreneurs. For me the solution was to start jogging regularly - it's almost like meditation and you can just run and not think about your next problem to be solved. I also like your comment about being happy. Perhaps it may sound a bit hedonistic, but it really is the most important thing in live! Well done.

jayliew 14y ago

Steli means it when he roots for the entrepreneur - first hand experience here. Thanks Steli! :)

natarius 14y ago

I feel you man...great talk!

lmirosevic 14y ago

Really great talk. Thanks! You hear a lot of people talking about how to succeed more, faster, etc. but very few people seem to mention all the little side effects of being a die hard entrepreneur, or how to deal with them.