4 ms·

How do you qualify them as a monopoly? I have 3 different non-Steam game stores and another 3 or 4 non-Steam game-specific launchers on my PC.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
>How do you qualify them as a monopoly? If you're a game dev, small or big it doesn't matter, and your game isn't on Steam, it might as well not exist. The sales and exposure of a game on Steam dwarf all other alternate PC storefronts. Even Ubisoft caved in and released their games on Steam. Monopoly doesn't mean being the only game in town, you can have 100 other competitors, but if your competitors have <10% market share and you have >90% then you're basically a monopoly.
- ziddoap 2y ago
  >If you're a game dev, small or big it doesn't matter, and your game isn't on Steam, it might as well not exist That's an exaggeration. World of Warcraft, COD, League of Legends, all exist just fine. For brand new games, The Bazaar is doing very well and they're using their own launcher. (Slightly off-topic, but The Bazaar is really good, for anyone who likes card-based auto-battler games! Highly recommend.)
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    Those games are the exceptions that prove the rule. There's some major gaming franchises out there that basically have their own gravity field at this point and can drive people to different storefronts(Fortnite, Minecraft, etc), but outside of those games, forget it, if your new game isn't a AAAA blockbuster and isn't on Steam, most people won't really carea bout it.
    - DrillShopper 2y ago
      That's hyperbole at best, especially given that places like itch.io and GoG exist. CDPR also puts all of their games DRM free from release on GoG - including The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        As long as Steam's pricing parity rule of thumb exists, there's only so much those others can do to compete. The only real reason people use alternative stores is to save money, and Valve put a silent hand on that.
    - delecti 2y ago
      I agree with the thrust of your point, that a tiny handful of games have their own gravity field which lets them ignore the titan that is Steam. But nit: that's not what "exception that proves the rule" means. An example of that saying is a sign that says "no parking 2-4pm", which proves that there is a rule that you can park any other time. WoW, Fortnite, CoD, Minecraft, those are just "exceptions".
    - keyringlight 2y ago
      Besides Fortnite (which is a big hit on mobile/consoles) all those examples hit their stride before steam opened to third parties or early in that period. Others like COD or Minecraft may have started on PC but migrated their main focus to other platforms too. What stands out to me is that while most studios accept that they've got to pay their tithe to valve in order to succeed on PC, for many it seems to begrudgingly so and where they have the capability they investigate using their own or alternative channels to get a better rate. It's an interesting parallel to Valve's moan around 15 years or so that Microsoft could E.E.E. PC gaming and the linux direction was hedging against that.
  - PokestarFan 2y ago
    Also so far Riot's games don't require upfront purchases so that changes the equation a bit.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    Why is the existence of the largest games on the market's survival proof thst Steam doesn't own 90% marketshare? Do people remember what monopoly means? Do they think any small dev can be a COD competitor tomorrow? Btw, based on my friend Bazaar still has its own balance issues arising every other patch.
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      >Why is the existence of the largest games on the market's survival proof thst Steam doesn't own 90% marketshare? It's proof that what the parent commenter said, the portion I explicitly quoted, is an exaggeration. >Btw, based on my friend Bazaar still has its own balance issues arising every other patch. I mean, sure. Can you name any competitive game that doesn't have balance issues? I can't. What matters to me is the iteration speed to address balance issues, which The Bazaar does at a really nice cadence.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        It's an exaggeration in that sure, it literally exists. But at this point you're not really engaging in good faith if that's your argument. Can we not do that ? >Can you name any competitive game that doesn't have balance issues? Sure. But I'm not entirely sure Bazaar is stable enough yet to have the mood swings of Overwatch 2. That's the danger. Make too many fans angry in this beta stage and you lose all goodwill for the full launch. I do empathize highly with the devs as someone who will try to do that song and dance themselves one day. But that's why I'm not only making my game with direct sales figures in mind.
        ziddoap 2y ago
        >But at this point you're not really engaging in good faith if that's your argument. Can we not do that ? Can we not say people aren't conversing in good faith solely as a method of shutting down further conversation? They stated something as an absolute and I gave examples of why it isn't an absolute. That's a perfectly normal conversation. It's not even an argument. As for Bazaar, it seems like you haven't played and aren't a fan, which is totally fine, but just a note that it is not in beta anymore. I'm not sure what your comments about "making my game with direct sales figures in mind" are referencing.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago

>How do you qualify them as a monopoly? If you're a game dev, small or big it doesn't matter, and your game isn't on Steam, it might as well not exist. The sales and exposure of a game on Steam dwarf all other alternate PC storefronts. Even Ubisoft caved in and released their games on Steam. Monopoly doesn't mean being the only game in town, you can have 100 other competitors, but if your competitors have <10% market share and you have >90% then you're basically a monopoly.

ziddoap 2y ago
>If you're a game dev, small or big it doesn't matter, and your game isn't on Steam, it might as well not exist That's an exaggeration. World of Warcraft, COD, League of Legends, all exist just fine. For brand new games, The Bazaar is doing very well and they're using their own launcher. (Slightly off-topic, but The Bazaar is really good, for anyone who likes card-based auto-battler games! Highly recommend.)
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  Those games are the exceptions that prove the rule. There's some major gaming franchises out there that basically have their own gravity field at this point and can drive people to different storefronts(Fortnite, Minecraft, etc), but outside of those games, forget it, if your new game isn't a AAAA blockbuster and isn't on Steam, most people won't really carea bout it.
  - DrillShopper 2y ago
    That's hyperbole at best, especially given that places like itch.io and GoG exist. CDPR also puts all of their games DRM free from release on GoG - including The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      As long as Steam's pricing parity rule of thumb exists, there's only so much those others can do to compete. The only real reason people use alternative stores is to save money, and Valve put a silent hand on that.
  - delecti 2y ago
    I agree with the thrust of your point, that a tiny handful of games have their own gravity field which lets them ignore the titan that is Steam. But nit: that's not what "exception that proves the rule" means. An example of that saying is a sign that says "no parking 2-4pm", which proves that there is a rule that you can park any other time. WoW, Fortnite, CoD, Minecraft, those are just "exceptions".
  - keyringlight 2y ago
    Besides Fortnite (which is a big hit on mobile/consoles) all those examples hit their stride before steam opened to third parties or early in that period. Others like COD or Minecraft may have started on PC but migrated their main focus to other platforms too. What stands out to me is that while most studios accept that they've got to pay their tithe to valve in order to succeed on PC, for many it seems to begrudgingly so and where they have the capability they investigate using their own or alternative channels to get a better rate. It's an interesting parallel to Valve's moan around 15 years or so that Microsoft could E.E.E. PC gaming and the linux direction was hedging against that.
- PokestarFan 2y ago
  Also so far Riot's games don't require upfront purchases so that changes the equation a bit.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  Why is the existence of the largest games on the market's survival proof thst Steam doesn't own 90% marketshare? Do people remember what monopoly means? Do they think any small dev can be a COD competitor tomorrow? Btw, based on my friend Bazaar still has its own balance issues arising every other patch.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    >Why is the existence of the largest games on the market's survival proof thst Steam doesn't own 90% marketshare? It's proof that what the parent commenter said, the portion I explicitly quoted, is an exaggeration. >Btw, based on my friend Bazaar still has its own balance issues arising every other patch. I mean, sure. Can you name any competitive game that doesn't have balance issues? I can't. What matters to me is the iteration speed to address balance issues, which The Bazaar does at a really nice cadence.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      It's an exaggeration in that sure, it literally exists. But at this point you're not really engaging in good faith if that's your argument. Can we not do that ? >Can you name any competitive game that doesn't have balance issues? Sure. But I'm not entirely sure Bazaar is stable enough yet to have the mood swings of Overwatch 2. That's the danger. Make too many fans angry in this beta stage and you lose all goodwill for the full launch. I do empathize highly with the devs as someone who will try to do that song and dance themselves one day. But that's why I'm not only making my game with direct sales figures in mind.
      - ziddoap 2y ago
        >But at this point you're not really engaging in good faith if that's your argument. Can we not do that ? Can we not say people aren't conversing in good faith solely as a method of shutting down further conversation? They stated something as an absolute and I gave examples of why it isn't an absolute. That's a perfectly normal conversation. It's not even an argument. As for Bazaar, it seems like you haven't played and aren't a fan, which is totally fine, but just a note that it is not in beta anymore. I'm not sure what your comments about "making my game with direct sales figures in mind" are referencing.