4 ms·

Assuming you're actually arguing in good faith, the "erasing" bit has been quite obvious and blatant. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/13/us/stonewall-inn-natio

Assuming you're actually arguing in good faith, the "erasing" bit has been quite obvious and blatant. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/13/us/stonewall-inn-national-monument-transgender/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/13/us/stonewall-inn-national... Removing people from information about a historical event doesn't look good under any lens.

duckfan 2y ago
Doesn't this change make it more historically accurate? In 1969, the year of the Stonewall uprising, the "TQ+" hadn't been invented yet as a cultural concept. The Stonewall Inn was a gay bar and was being targeted for that reason.
- reef_sh 2y ago
  Not really, no, especially considering the involvement of trans people in the event itself. For example, see the section regarding "Zazu Nova" on the current page https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fence-exhibit.htm https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fenc... and before the erasure https://web.archive.org/web/20250202042345/https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fence-exhibit.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20250202042345/https://www.nps.g...
  - duckfan 2y ago
    Interesting to see the difference and I agree that's an inaccurate edit. For historical accuracy it should describe Zazu Nova as a gay man who was also a transvestite or drag queen.
    - reef_sh 2y ago
      You do realize that "gay man", "transvestite", "drag queen", and "trans woman" are all different things right? None of them implies the others. And using any term besides trans woman would be disingenuous, as trans people existed before before 1969, with that exact nomenclature already existing. Just because the letters might not have been attached to an "LGBT" title, neither T or Q are new. Only their increased acceptance and knowledge is. And deleting references to those is, as you can see, seen as an obvious attempt to walk back on that public perception and acceptance. While ( as often is ) a very summarized version of the history can be found on the wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history , the sources should lead you to more detailed info, if you do care about learning about the historical accuracy.
      - duckfan 2y ago
        The Stonewall Inn was a gay bar so we know that Zazu Nova must have been there due to being a gay man. As the previous iteration of the website describes Nova as "queen", "she" and "transgender woman", this means that in 1960s terminology Nova would almost certainly have been understood to be a transvestite, possibly a drag queen. Sources on the web refer to Nova having involvement with the Street Transvestites Action Revolutionaries group, which fits with that description also.

duckfan 2y ago

Doesn't this change make it more historically accurate? In 1969, the year of the Stonewall uprising, the "TQ+" hadn't been invented yet as a cultural concept. The Stonewall Inn was a gay bar and was being targeted for that reason.

reef_sh 2y ago
Not really, no, especially considering the involvement of trans people in the event itself. For example, see the section regarding "Zazu Nova" on the current page https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fence-exhibit.htm https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fenc... and before the erasure https://web.archive.org/web/20250202042345/https://www.nps.gov/ston/learn/photosmultimedia/virtual-fence-exhibit.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20250202042345/https://www.nps.g...
- duckfan 2y ago
  Interesting to see the difference and I agree that's an inaccurate edit. For historical accuracy it should describe Zazu Nova as a gay man who was also a transvestite or drag queen.
  - reef_sh 2y ago
    You do realize that "gay man", "transvestite", "drag queen", and "trans woman" are all different things right? None of them implies the others. And using any term besides trans woman would be disingenuous, as trans people existed before before 1969, with that exact nomenclature already existing. Just because the letters might not have been attached to an "LGBT" title, neither T or Q are new. Only their increased acceptance and knowledge is. And deleting references to those is, as you can see, seen as an obvious attempt to walk back on that public perception and acceptance. While ( as often is ) a very summarized version of the history can be found on the wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history , the sources should lead you to more detailed info, if you do care about learning about the historical accuracy.
    - duckfan 2y ago
      The Stonewall Inn was a gay bar so we know that Zazu Nova must have been there due to being a gay man. As the previous iteration of the website describes Nova as "queen", "she" and "transgender woman", this means that in 1960s terminology Nova would almost certainly have been understood to be a transvestite, possibly a drag queen. Sources on the web refer to Nova having involvement with the Street Transvestites Action Revolutionaries group, which fits with that description also.